Posts by nochoice

119

And just to add to the last few comments about sticking to your guns, keep in mind that the first thing your body of elders are going to think is, "who are we going to get to do what El Guapo is doing now?" Your stepping down means more work for them. They will not give up on you that easily. You are a valuable free employee and they don't have a lot of applicants looking to take your job!

The elder that will be the most relentless on you will most likely be the one you directly assist, since your jobs will fall back on him. He will also have a stake in changing your mind because it will reflect negatively on him that his assitant bowed out.

I agree that health should be the tactic. Do whatever you can to look sick! Speak to them like you're going to die. Hunch over. Shake a bit like you're overwhelmed when they start to push a little. Seriously!

119

worn out ministerial servant!

by El_Guapo in

jw
friends

nochoice

Welcome!

It's absolutely no excuse, but the elders in your congregation are probably just as worn out as you. And the problem is that if you don't do these things, they have to. It gets to the point where all the elders and servants involved are just trying to survive and have even a little life outside the religion.

All of the priveledges before becoming an MS are you being "tested as to fitness." But it's also helping to take work away from some other burnt out servant or elder. And when you become an MS and are given more and more, giving anything up means someone else will have to do it, so you always do more.

The work never goes away! It's just a matter of who has to do it. So if you can't take out the group on Saturday, your group overseer cares more about whether he has to do it than if you're feeling ok.

As much as I was "in" just for show and didn't believe anything taught, I became the same way! When I had to confirm students for parts on the school and some gave me long stories about why they couldn't fulfill the assignment, in my mind I was thinking, "whatever, I don't care, now I have more work to do to get the part filled!" And although I hated being that person, I couldn't help it because what was important was getting the tasks done not the people!

The very organizational style of the kingdom hall arragements makes it impossible, after a while, to truly care about you or me or any of the friends because of all the work that needs to be done, no matter how loving a particular elder or servant might be in thier heart of hearts.

I am glad you've been reading and can see you're not alone!

88

Minimus' Post Gave Me Courage To Finally Post My Questions, New Here

by toweragent in

i have been "lurking" for about four years now.. it was an incredibly weird experience just to look at a site like jwn or freeminds.

he came off very loving.. so, i decided that i would talk to one of my elders about the things i read.

if any of you have time to read this, thank you.

nochoice

Welcome Toweragent! Lots of great advice here, and similar posts helped me in the past, so I know you will benefit too.

When I was in your shoes what was imporant to me was motive. I wondered if the Governing Body was just doing thier best! It was apparent that they were covering thier tracks a bit with past errors, but I thought that maybe the good outweighed the bad. If they were truly working so hard to keep millions of sheep spiritually fed, some errors and cover ups were not that big a deal. Of course, I knew that the motives of the coverups were improper, but I still hoped thier overall motives were to save people.

But the more I read, the more errors and coverups I found. And there came a time when I could no longer be an apologist for them (in my own mind). Motives no longer mattered one way or the other! And I think that's the path you're on. Soon I could no longer think like your elder friend who was very sweet admitting there were some problems but noting that the New Order would fix them, because there were just too many problems.

You might be able to force yourself to look the other way with ONE concern, say, 1914/1918, or blood transfusions, or disfellowshipping, or Milawi Africa, or child molestation acusations, or failed prophecies, or what have you. But you can't force yourself to look the other way, and apologize to yourself for, and give the benefit of the doubt for ALL OF THEM! And you will, unfortunately find more and more with just a little looking.

29

Who is supposed to do the "Separating Work" for the new magazines?

by nochoice in

jw
friends

so, there is a bit of a fight going on in our hall between our pioneer sisters and our magazine servant.

since the new magazines are boxed with two issues together, there is a bit of work to be done separating them.

our magazine servant stacked them on the counter as usual, right out of the box.

nochoice

I am sure any day now the Governing Body® and its pharisaical Helpers™ will issue yet another mind numbing page and a half Letter to the Elders® describing in step by step detail how to handle this new Arrangement™ with an accompanying Announcement© to the Congregation™ to be read at the shortened Service Meeting® and then read again after the shortened Watchtower© Study, along with a postscript advising the Elders® to destroy all previous Letters to the Elders® and update the Index of Letters®© showing the new procedure will involve the Service Overseer©, and the Magazine Servant™ along with their assistants (in larger congregations) to meet on Saturday after Field Service™ to open the boxes and separate these smaller magazines tracts so that the Publishers® will more willingly offer them in the Magazine Tract work.

I LOVE the Copyrights and Trademarks and Federal Registration marks SnakesIn The Tower!

Dear Brother nochoice,

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the correct theocratic procedure for dispensing the spiritual food that is published in The Watchtower and Awake magazines.

The life-giving message contained in these unique publications behooves all of us to ensure that they are dispensed effectively to the flock of God that was entrused to your care.

We suggest you may want to consider appointing a magazine separator who can assist the magazine servant in this vital task.

Beautiful blend of Legal Department and Society speak cofty. No doubt, the Elder body will be unable to get a unanimous decision without an official letter since their respective wives are the ones stirring the pot. The married elders would just want to keep the wives happy, but that goes against thier general thoughts that men shouldn't do anything menial for the sisters!

hahaha I hate when JWs are referred to as "The Friends". What are they, Quakers?

Very strict protocols in my KH Mr. Falcon. We refer to those coming up to the counter as "The Friends" since that's the most general. We don't refer to them all as "Publishers" because some may be only studying and not yet an Unbatized Publisher. Referring to everyone in the KH as a Publisher is taking away the dignity of those that really are and worked so hard! We were told that many that come to the counter are getting literature for thier own use, and so we shouldn't refer to them in our conversations as Publishers since some are not. I am very careful now when I ask for direction to use the proper terms.

E.g., "When the freinds come up to get Jeremiah books, how many can we give before we call over an Elder for permission?"

VS

"When the publishers request a territory close to where they live, should I search the maps for thier choice?"

do you people not keep up with "noo lite"? The separating work is no longer in the hands of the earthly faithful followers of Jehovah, but has been put in the hands of Jesus, sitting as King... but this separating work has not yet begun.

Undercover, you have to remember that although Matthew 25:31-33 talks about the separating work that Jesus will do, Ezekiel 9:1-11 shows that it's on the basis of people's reaction to the Kingdom message that people are being "marked" either for preservation through the great tribulation or for destruction by God. (Right out of the Reasoning Book). Most of the publishers in my KH, especially the pioneer sisters, believe that householders that say "no" to them are now marked for Jesus to destroy later!

Thanks to all for the funny comments!

I think it's a bigger issue to the friends because they just don't know how to deal with this change in thier minds. I mentioned in another post that when the reduction from two Awake and Watchtower magaines for the public per month down to one happened they got to enjoy the hype of the JW-only Study Edition addition. But now cutting the magazines in half is confusing the friends, since there's no cool additional thing just for them. They're conditioned that more stuff from The Slave is a good thing. How are they now to understand the concept of "less food" being a good thing?!

29

Who is supposed to do the "Separating Work" for the new magazines?

by nochoice in

jw
friends

so, there is a bit of a fight going on in our hall between our pioneer sisters and our magazine servant.

since the new magazines are boxed with two issues together, there is a bit of work to be done separating them.

our magazine servant stacked them on the counter as usual, right out of the box.

nochoice

So, there is a bit of a fight going on in our hall between our pioneer sisters and our Magazine Servant. Since the new magazines are boxed with two issues together, there is a bit of work to be done separating them. Our Magazine Servant stacked them on the counter as usual, right out of the box. Very soon, friends started coming back to the counter, informing the Magazine Servant that he failed to separate them.

You see, the freinds are not used to having to take them apart, and it is a bit confusing because the weight of two new reduced size magazines one inside the other is about the same as one of the old magazines. I can certainly see a lot of "waste" out in the field, as householders are given two sets of each magazine. But who is responsible to separate them?

The sisters say the Magazine Servant, since the publishers never had to do that work before. However, the Magazine Servant says that just like tracts that have to be folded by the publishers and just like the Truth tract that has to be separated into 8 different tracts by the publishers, it should be the friends job.

So far, the elders have not been brought into it since this just occured. But I am sure The Slave has direction on the matter! Anyone know?

97

Jehovah's Witnesses dismayed by new magazine format from Watchtower Society.

by Balaamsass in

jw
friends

wow.

i was surprised this week by calls from active jws complaining about the new magazine format, and more begging for money from the platform.. frankly i was surprized by this reaction since this is old news to jwn members.

i guess actually shuffling to the bookroom and grabbing the new "awake tracts" minus the inside cover forward ...awakened many sleepy, catatonic, bored jws who never read the things or go on the internet anyway.. any feedback from other areas?.

nochoice

The dissappointment from the friends is real in my hall. Mostly long-time sisters that feel the magazines are no longer meaty. Many of these sisters survive on magazine routes, and I think they're feeling like the householders are going to be dissappointed. Too bad they don't realize the householder will probably be happier and might actually read an article now that they're thinner magazines.

I also think the reduction from two Awake and Watchtower magaines for the public per month down to one was absorbed by the hype of the JW-only Study Edition addition. But now cutting the magazines in half is confusing the friends, since there's no cool additional thing. I am not even sure it's a cognitive dissonance problem kicking in that they can't put thier finger on. I just think they're conditioned that more stuff from The Slave is a good thing. How are they now to understand the concept of "less food" being a good thing?

65

14 Minutes and you are not a Servant of Jehovah

by JT in

jw
friends

last night we were discussing the "new light" that was revealed to the gb recently from jehovah.

many of us recall all the co talks and elder parts based on the bible text of how a true servant of jah would not be "inactive or irregular" for years one was required to have at least one hour to be considered a servant of jah.. as the sec in my hall i recall so many times calling up friends to get thier time and hearing them break crying cause they didn't have 60min only about 45min- and they knew that it meant they were not servants of jah.

now with the new light from jw a person with only 14 minutes of time will now be disqualified as being a servant of jah.. it is amazing how many jw will view this arrangement as a "loving provision from jah" instead of realizing that thier service to thier god has been reduced to whether they get 15min or 14 min.

nochoice

I actually like the "shopping cart" illustration. It's true in many ways.

As an active, happy, JW, what's the most valuable thing in your shopping cart? Everlasting life? And I am really not trying to be a smart ass. I want to know what you value most as a JW. I am not sure if you understood the OP's main point of missed oportunities in life and the fact that if we weren't JW's, the goods in our shopping cart could be more meaniful.

65

14 Minutes and you are not a Servant of Jehovah

by JT in

jw
friends

last night we were discussing the "new light" that was revealed to the gb recently from jehovah.

many of us recall all the co talks and elder parts based on the bible text of how a true servant of jah would not be "inactive or irregular" for years one was required to have at least one hour to be considered a servant of jah.. as the sec in my hall i recall so many times calling up friends to get thier time and hearing them break crying cause they didn't have 60min only about 45min- and they knew that it meant they were not servants of jah.

now with the new light from jw a person with only 14 minutes of time will now be disqualified as being a servant of jah.. it is amazing how many jw will view this arrangement as a "loving provision from jah" instead of realizing that thier service to thier god has been reduced to whether they get 15min or 14 min.

nochoice

JT said about JW's: "I always felt something was wrong--just couldn't put my finger on it."

I had just the opposite experience. I was raised in the world and knew as a child that there was something fundamentally wrong with it.

When I finally found JW's in my mid-twenties, I found what I had been looking for all my young life; a conscientious group of people who truly wanted to follow in the evangelizing footsteps of Christ.

Wow, A Watcher, you took a classic, amazing, 10 year old thread that was recently bumped, and trashed it? Reading this "shopping cart" illustration years ago caused me to "come back" and "stay in" for the sake of my dad who had nothing else to live for.

I find it hard to believe that you read all of the postings on this thread and really feel the way you do about finding the right Christ followers.

29

I Thing Being Friends With My Jehovah Witness Friend is Taking A Mental Toll On Me?

by TheNurseInBlack in

everything was great untill about two years ago untill she realized i wasn't a jehovah witness.

i didn't notice it before but now i noticed the next day she began to give me verses about the "truth".

it recently got worse with her religious debates lately i've been able to prove her wrong with most of them.

nochoice

I really love her and she's my best friend but being paranoid all the time about this its starting to really get to me.

Are your intentions romantic? Do you want a future with her? If so, you have only two choices:

Choice 1) Convert and be a JW, either for real or for appearances. Either way, your life will be nothing like it is now. And no matter how wonderful she is, no matter how gorgeous, a girl is not worth either becoming a JW or faking being a JW for the rest of your life.

Choice 2) Get her out. Some have already commented on how to help her do this. This would be the best thing for her in the long run. It's true that you may lose her friendship in the process, but as some have mentioned, even if you shake up her faith a little, she will be in a better state than before, even if she shuns you.

The very best advice is to read as many comments on this forum as possible. There are so, so many insights here. And there is not one single post on JWN that would ever make you decide to make Choice 1! You'll read about those of us who are "in" simply to continue relationships with husbands or wives or moms or dads or thier kids. You'll read about people who would love to be in your position - out of the organization with thier family in tact. There is absolutely nothing good to be gained in this religion.

Good luck.

13

The "Kingdom Proclaimer's Book" Who Wrote This Pile of "Sht"?

by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

i got coc in the mail yesterday, i am almost done with the book and after using franz's notes with old magazines, i believe he is not a power hungry, man who i was taught went insane from burn-out!.

i love his updated edition he left us before he passed away, he takes the k.p.

book and destroys the false history witnesses are taught.

nochoice

"Wow! This is garbage! You actually like this?"

"You call this literature?!"