Posts by Sirona

18

Jesus is wise? Don't make me laugh comforter!

by Faraon in

was jesus the wisest man who ever lived?

if you are a normal, well adjusted man who is not mind controlled, and want to find out the opposing side, and the real truth read biblical errancy - a reference guide- by c. dennis mckinsey, isbn 1-57392-808-9 you can purchase it through amazon.com .

12:1-6, 8; mark 2:23-28; mat 12:10-13; luke 13:10-16; john 5:8-11).

Sirona

Faraon,

Some of your points seem valid. However, the whole tone of your comments are slightly offensive. When considering anything biblical, it is important to understand context particularly in relation to customs of the time, background information etc. You simplify some of Jesus's comments to sound ridiculous, when actually they may sound OK when considered in context.

It is reasonable for someone to put faith in Jesus IMO, at least as reasonable as any other religion. Anyone can poke fun at any religious belief and make it sound stupid, thats easy. The fact is that many intelligent people decide to be religious, for varying reasons, and are most open to debate (rather than ridicule).

Sirona

13

Found cheating saved his life

by Sirona in

jw
friends

sirona .

edited by - sirona on 14 june 2002 11:11:12 .

edited by - sirona on 14 june 2002 11:14:37edited by - sirona on 14 june 2002 11:15:36.

Sirona

Someone mailed it to me....

Sirona

23

What is Faith?

by Mackin in

jw
friends

when i was a 'dub, i beleived that faith was the hebrews 11 thing, but since i have put aside that way of thinking and no longer believe god or believe the bible to be anything more than a collection of human history and philosophy, i tend to think in terms of faith being no more than the dictionary definition: .

1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions.

2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to god (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust.

Sirona

IMO, Faith is a belief in something through your own reasoning and your own feeling. It does not need to be proved, it is built on your own development of ideas about something.

We all need faith to some degree. Often, we don't know something will happen, but we have to have faith that it will. E.g. if we are to trust someone, that involves an element of faith in the person, based on our experience of them and our reasoning.

Faith can border on intuition IMO. Sometimes we know something without being sure how we know it...we seem to have faith it.

Sirona

13

Found cheating saved his life

by Sirona in

jw
friends

sirona .

edited by - sirona on 14 june 2002 11:11:12 .

edited by - sirona on 14 june 2002 11:14:37edited by - sirona on 14 june 2002 11:15:36.

Sirona

!!!!!

Sirona

Edited by - Sirona on 14 June 2002 11:11:12

Edited by - Sirona on 14 June 2002 11:14:37

Edited by - SIrona on 14 June 2002 11:15:36

42

Voice your opinion- Organised religion.

by jerome in

my main problem with organised religion is when totalitarianism comes into play.

thats when you get institutions like the catholic church in its earlier years.

that should never be allowed.. jerome

Sirona

SixofNine,

Sorry, I only just realised I didn't respond to you.

The beliefs of an individual can cause hatred and bloodshed, that is true. Yet religion itself is not the sole basis of a human being's "beliefs". E.g. I may believe that someone murdered my family and therefore desire to get vengeance....that belief is not religious, it is based on my assessment of a situation. It is not true that belief as far as spiritual beliefs ALWAYS lead to destruction.

Just because there has been bloodshed in the name of religion does not mean that all religion is wrong. Thats like saying ban all knives because they can be used to kill.

Some religions (organised ones) such as JW will promote destructive tendencies, yet I think that outside of organised religion it is entirely possible to be religious without harming yourself or others.

Sirona

33

The Bible Does Not Condemn Witchcraft

by Sirona in

the jws are against anything remotely pagan and they're certainly against witchcraft.

they say the bible condemns it.

scriptures such as exodus 22:v18 "you must not preserve a sorceress alive" (nwt) or as the king james version says "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".

Sirona

HI Maynard,

Oh dear me!

Who has the real problem here? Im I intolerant for telling you. Im I narrow minded for not accepting that your belief is right. Of course not! That would be absurd!
But why when we turn to religion do people automatically label someone as intolerant when they challenge a religious belief? It is probably because your religious foundation is so weak that it can not stand up to challenges so you have to resort to name calling (your so intolerant).

Where did I label you as intolerant? Where did I name call?

Of course you can challenge my belief, thats why I started this thread, so that we could discuss both sides of the argument. I am interested in what people have to say. My comments regarding intolerance were not directed at one person, I was stating that *some* christians say that my faith is devil worship and are intolerant of my faith and practice of it. I was saying that even if they are, that doesn't mean that I'm intolerant of them/their beliefs.

If I am intolerant for telling you Jesus is the way, and the only way to God, and that all other paths lead to eternal separation, then so be it.

I respect your conviction. I just don't like the "I'm right and you are wrong" attitude. However, when I die (or before) if I discover that God really does make those who are not christian (no matter how much love they show, etc.) "eternally separated" then I will remember that Maynard was right. That doesn't mean I will agree with God's way, but I will at least know "the truth". Since God has not confirmed to me 100% what exactly "he" expects, then I think its pretty nasty of him to hold me accountable.

Then again, when you die (or before) you may find that God lovingly accepts anyone who is sincere in their faith and who tries to show love to their fellow man. Rather than judging me (telling me my belief is not right) why don't you practice loving acceptance?

Sirona

33

The Bible Does Not Condemn Witchcraft

by Sirona in

the jws are against anything remotely pagan and they're certainly against witchcraft.

they say the bible condemns it.

scriptures such as exodus 22:v18 "you must not preserve a sorceress alive" (nwt) or as the king james version says "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".

Sirona

Hi Bleep,

Thanks for the information! That was an interesting read. I was aware of the origins of such practices and I marvel at the development of such thinking in history. It is a beautiful thing that we have spirituality and that we can express it in many ways.

Sirona

4

Is Morrissey a JW?

by Sirona in

i love morrissey, actually.

recently it occurred to me that some of his lyrics reflect the jw mindset pretty well.

note "every day is like sunday" lyrics below (bolded for emphasis):trudging slowly over wet sand.

Sirona

Neil, I tend to agree with your analysis. Perhaps the odd thing was put into some songs when he was talking with Viv, probably to take the p*ss.

Amac....the ouija board bit was when he turned apostate?!

Billy -

Sirona

4

Is Morrissey a JW?

by Sirona in

i love morrissey, actually.

recently it occurred to me that some of his lyrics reflect the jw mindset pretty well.

note "every day is like sunday" lyrics below (bolded for emphasis):trudging slowly over wet sand.

Sirona

I love Morrissey, actually. Recently it occurred to me that some of his lyrics reflect the JW mindset pretty well. Note "every day is like sunday" lyrics below (bolded for emphasis):

Trudging slowly over wet sand
Back to the bench where your clothes were stolen
This is the coastal town
That they forgot to close down
Armageddon - come Armageddon!
Come, Armageddon! Come!
Everyday is like Sunday
Everyday is silent and grey
Hide on the promenade
Etch a postcard :
"How I Dearly Wish I Was Not Here"In the seaside town
...that they forgot to bomb
Come, Come, Come - nuclear bomb
Everyday is like Sunday
Everyday is silent and grey
Trudging back over pebbles and sand
And a strange dust lands on your hands
(And on your face...)
(On your face ...)
(On your face ...)
(On your face ...)
Everyday is like Sunday
"Win Yourself A Cheap Tray"
Share some greased tea with me
Everyday is silent and grey

Sirona

33

The Bible Does Not Condemn Witchcraft

by Sirona in

the jws are against anything remotely pagan and they're certainly against witchcraft.

they say the bible condemns it.

scriptures such as exodus 22:v18 "you must not preserve a sorceress alive" (nwt) or as the king james version says "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".

Sirona

gsx: Yes, Email me at [email protected]

My only concern is that in trying to use the Bible to validate witchcraft you lose the uniqueness of witchcraft altogether

I wasnt using the bible to validate witchcraft. I was trying to highlight what the bible actually says about such practices so that some people out there would think about that and give me their opinion. I do not follow the laws of the bible because I believe it is a book written by men, for men. It likely has some of the divine spark in it that those men found within themselves, and assuming Jesus existed (which I think he did) I believe he was a spiritual man who gave good spiritual advice.

You are far more tolerant of those who hate us than I am and you should be commended for it.

Thank you. I really do try to be tolerant if I expect others to be tolerant of me. I think we should "speak out" against intolerance by educating those people who demonstrate it. I don't think its a good idea to be intolerant of some people because they are intolerant. (I'm getting tongue tied here! LOL).

Reslight: Thanks for your input. You quote the definition of "witchcraft" and "sorcery". In my opinion "sorcery" is more a word for an evil practice. In these cases, it is extremely difficult to define the meaning of a word, let alone know what the bible writers meant when they used Hebrew or Greek. Your quote mentions "necromancy". The witchcraft I'm referring to is not necromancy, there are no dead spirits called. A spell does not need to involve any sort of spirit at all and I've never heard of any spell involving spirits of the dead. Necromancy is a separate practice that some pagans get involved in and some pagans don't.

I will address your points regarding Yahweh one by one:

1) They claim the dead are still alive in the spirit world, in effect, calling Yahweh a liar,

Firstly, not all pagans believe that a soul exists after death. They might believe that energy from the deceased merges with the universe (similar to how some buddhists view it). Those who do believe in life after death are not calling Yahweh a liar because most do not accept the bible as the undefiled word of God. Moreover, many christians also believe in life after death, and I wouldn't think that most christians would consider that they are calling Yahweh a liar, they are simply interpreting the bible's message another way.

(2) They claim that idolatry is okay; that we should be more concerned about inter-religious harmony, etc, than worshiping the true God, the one who will eventually bring true harmony to the human race, Yahweh;

The pagans I know do not put interreligious harmony above worshipping God. In wicca, we are of a faith, of a religion, which is based on worship of God. Interreligious harmony is way down the line of priorities. IMO idolatry involves worshipping something that is not of God. We use images and items to represent God/ess, but we don't worship the images, we worship God/ess.

(3) They claim that practices that Yahweh condemns are okay, such as homosexual behavior, fornication, etc.;

Again I reiterate that by far most religious people alive today do not accept the bible as inspired of God. There are other books and there are other ways and faiths that are not based on books. Moreover, despite not saying such practices are wrong, that does not mean that we are without morality. The sacredness of sexual activity is acknowledged and the principle behind such matters considered. We all have a choice. To practice immoral behaviour to the detriment of ourself and others is considered wrong.

(4) They claim that one does not have obey Yahweh;

Yes that is true. Noone HAS to obey any aspect of deity. We have choices. A pagans choice is to worship God but not according to one book -the bible.

(5) They deny the curse of vanity upon the present sun and earth. More could probably be added to this listed, but this shows the point

I don't know of any curse of vanity upon the present sun and earth. Please provide proof of such curse.

You assume a lot about paganism. I really hope that my comments have helped you see some of the facts.

Sirona

Edited by - Sirona on 11 June 2002 8:53:4