Posts by Elephant

34

Wishful thinking? Will WTBS ever go down?

by MC RubberMallet in

i see it posted that many are 'waking up' etc.

but the religion is still growing!

many enjoy the kool-aid.

Elephant

lol elephant, now whos wishful thinking?

cupcakes-

laugh away cupcakes...laugh away...

24

Latest Watchtower about Education ??

by ShirleyW in

jw
friends

saw a sis.

in the subway station holding a washtowel which had a title dealing with education, can't remember the exact wording now.

she was actively pursuing everyone as they swiped their metrocard, so as she thrust the mag towards me i said "oh, it's about education, does it say anything about college"?

Elephant

Then, of course, she turned away with a smile on her face.

shirley-

...wonder what she was smiling about...

...

34

Wishful thinking? Will WTBS ever go down?

by MC RubberMallet in

i see it posted that many are 'waking up' etc.

but the religion is still growing!

many enjoy the kool-aid.

Many religions have survived attacks and difficult times. Some part of the WTS will exist for a long time. The focus should be on helping individuals. The WTS lost almost 3/4 of their members around 1925 and after 1975, 2 to 3%, but has bounced back.

-

Will WTBS ever go down? No.

...we have too many very intelligent, and very saavy individuals that know how to manipulate the world of finance and investment to our advantage, too many individuals thoroughly versed in state and federal law (not to mention connected to it), too many charismatic individuals that understand how the human mind and heart works, too many foward thinking minds that can forsee the little bumps 100 miles ahead and are already preparing for them (Armaggedon or not)...

...oh, and by the way...too many convinced that Jehovah is on our side...

32

The best way to help any JW out is to remain active

by Most Noble in

attacking from the outside will always prove to be unproductive.

it is more effective to remain inside the domain while raising people's consciousness and letting them see all the flaws behind the farce.

i have tried it and i have gotten 47 people out in 6 months, while i am still seen as a publisher in good standing.. .

Elephant

.......................... ...OUTLAW

--

...outlaw...that was funny...

92

Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....

by EndofMysteries in

if anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.

how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.

i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.

Elephant

christalone-

This comment almost doesn't merit any response. We were talking about the claim that Hislop made that Egypt developed its religion based off of the beliefs held by people in Mesopotamia. When shown to be false Elephant tries to defend Rutherford because Rutherford is associated with his religion. No admission that Rutherford and Hislop were absolutely 100% wrong. No, he just comes back with "why is it hard to assume". Because, Elephant, we are not assuming anything. We are examining what was written and showing that it was 100% false.

-

...Christalone...come on, you can't state that Hislop erroneously claimed that Egypt developed its religion based off beliefs from Mesopotamia, then use words like 'derivatives' to explain that it did, BUT THEN say again that Hislop is 100%, not 50 or 75%, wrong??!!... so which is it??...will you ALSO state that religious concepts and ideas didn't have a point of origin, wherefrom all other religious concepts evolved from?...step back and look at the BIG picture my friend...

Elephant, do yourself a favor and instead of defending the Watchtower (and the obvious quackery of Rutherford), try and do your own research OUTSIDE of the Watchtower so you can join in on an intelligent conversation with the big kids.

...yes, I have heard this now 5 or 6 times, 'go do your own research'...welcome to the REAL world christalone, not EVERYONE will blindly agree with your 'big kid' interpretations...

92

Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....

by EndofMysteries in

if anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.

how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.

i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.

Elephant

Solomon...I think Leoalia and I agree on the whole evil in nature thing...

92

Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....

by EndofMysteries in

if anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.

how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.

i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.

Elephant

leolia-

again...on the first point...you unintentionally emphasize Rutherford's point...substitute X god for Y god or vice versa...and its the SAME idea or concept...

on the second point you state-

Which have NOTHING to do with historical relationship or contact between peoples. There are things to the human experience that are universal because WE ARE HUMAN and we live on the same planet. Pointing out that, say, both the Egyptians and Babylonians worshipped the sun has nothing to do with showing a contact of ideas

...thus my question to Christ Alone was, why is it so hard to assume that Egypt did not adopt religious concepts or ideas from another people, nation, civilization etc?...as you said, we do live in the same planet...

...i'm assuming your argument here is the 'lack' of written 'historical relationships'?...of which we do not need to infer your second sentence...again WE ARE HUMAN...

I was talking about Mesopotamia, yeah of course the Babylonians were influenced by the earlier Sumerians in the same area. But as I mentioned, Babylon was very much a Johnny-come-lately. It had nothing to do with the "invention of religion". That's a myth.

...we are not arguing on this point, we both understand that religion is created or makes an appearance at some point, wether in Babylon , Mesopotamia, or Sumeria, or before...fact is religion appears somewhere at some point...

Regarding my last question…actually, you gave your definition of evil…you did not clearly state wether you accepted this definition or not…you actually gave two definitions, the second one regarding evil in nature i agree with you...as to the first, you commonly label something a ‘myth’, but you didn’t do this with this definition…

Well, "evil" has an existence within a system of morality that is a fundamental part of human society and culture; evil is what we humans call violations of that moral order, whether at a more universal human level (e.g. violations of human rights), or within a more socially-dependent/constructed level (e.g. violations of specific laws).

…so do you believe in it or not?...

92

Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....

by EndofMysteries in

if anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.

how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.

i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.

Elephant

...

92

Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....

by EndofMysteries in

if anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.

how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.

i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.

Elephant

leolaia-

on the first point...I believe that Rutherford's assertions were being questioned DUE to errors in names and attributing references to the wrong writers...the problem is ...Rutherford's point was the presence of sun worship, NOT who wrote about sun worship...

on the second point...you stated the following-

The cultures were clearly independent and the mythologies had little in common beyond expected achetypes. And Babylonian mythology in the 1st millennium BC was partly derivative of both older (3rd millennium BC) Akkadian polytheism and even older (4th-3rd millennium BC) Sumerian religion.

...thereby admitting there are common similarities however fundamental or 'expected' ...you also point to 'derivatives'...your own language indicates a point of origin and assimilation in regards to the subject...

...on the third point , you wrote-

BTW I didn't say that Satan isn't real. I said that Satan (as a figure in Jewish-Christian mythology) is an idea....that's a fact everyone can agree on, whether or not there is "a Devil behind the idea". To make things simple, I'll say that I don't believe in the ontological existence in any divinity from any mythology. And that is not to say that I am against the idea of mythology....I love mythology. But I don't accept the claims of any mythology as reflecting an outside reality beyond the culture and ideas that shape it, unless there is good empirical evidence to think otherwise.

...in other words...just because you, as an individual doesn't believe in Satan, doesn't mean Satan isn't real?...

...what about the idea or concept of the word EVIL?...would you agree that EVIL exists?...

4

Message for Endofmysteries- from Elephant

by Elephant in

endofmysteries,.

wanted to pass this thought on to you, regarding your thread of what is about to happen and changes in this world.... ...you present some interesting ideas, and i must say that you are in fact on to something...the key to your comprehension will be to 'build' on previous and successfully discerned concepts before moving on to the next one.... in another thread you brought up masonic ties to the watchtower and we began an interesting conversation there.... ...how about we continue it here?

...again, have you contemplated the ouroborus symbol?.

Elephant

...that symbol could aid you in deciphiring many of your questions...