please direct your attention to the current issue of discovery magazine.
as we all know, there is considerable exchange of this precious bodily fluid among people who kiss, i.e., everyone.
of course among jws that's supposed to include only the married or soon to be.
So, is it time for an updated Young People Ask book?
I can see the chapter now, "Kissing and Homosexuality - What is God's View?"
"One common practice amoungst homosexuals is the act of kissing...."
Richard, who is amazed at how "everything" can be said to be wrong
last night on local news,(tulsa,ok) they warned of a terror attack before the end of the week.
urged us to stock up on bottled water and foods.
have sheets of plastic on hand to cover vents in case of a dirty bomb.. anyone else hearing any warnings?.
Sounds like propaganda to gain public support for the war on Iraq. What better way to get support than to scare the shit out of your own citizens using a possible what-if scenario? After all, after 9/11, anything is possible.
How does one get the American public to really relate to a need to go to war on a weak country in the Middle East? You prepare them for a possible emergency. Not only does this show that you are a responsible, caring government, it drives the necessity of war home to Joe Average in a way that goes deep into his mind and heart.
Lying to the public was used to gain support in Canada for the Gulf War. Remember the stories of Iraqi soldiers taking newborn babies out of incubators and taking the incubators away? Why, they even had an Iraqi nurse on the news who saw it happen. Turned out, the whole story was fabricated. The "nurse" turned out to be an ambassador's daughter. She was not a nurse, and had not been to Iraq. But by the time the public was informed, we didn't care. The public strongly supported the Gulf War.
The first casualty of war is truth.
I remain skeptical because I have seen the Bush government do similar stunts. Remember the energy crisis in California a few years ago (2000/2001)? Where electricity prices jumped so high that electrical utilities went bankrupct? Turned out that the Bush govt. helped that crisis along until they got the bill passed that allowed Artic exploration for oil. Then the crisis was quickly fixed. Funny, because previously we were told that it would take five years to build the needed power generation plants. And suddenly, the crisis is fixed within months.
Or how the Bush govt. knew that a jetliner would be flown into a building five months in advance? And they couldn't increase airport security then? They could, but they gain so much political power now by letting the WTC tradgey happen.
I am not saying that Bush and company is more corrupt than previous govts. What I am saying is that I don't trust what they tell the public. No matter what, they will have war with Iraq. Why? Because they want to, that's why. I suspect the reason has to do with control of oil or control of the Middle East. As nutty and bad as SH is, he controlled the surrounding countries quite well. And the U.S. could control SH. Now that SH is not listening to the U.S., the U.S. has suddenly decided that SH is a threat to other countries.
Richard
Edited by - Skeptic on 12 February 2003 12:23:58
ok here is my situation....... i went to an attorney back in november to get my divorce.
she came highly recommended by several people.
she asked me a lot of questions about my marriage, circumstances, bascially got all the information she needed to file the divorce for me.
My biggest problem was I guess that I trusted her..lol yes what was I thinking...but she did come so highly recommended. I am going to be sure and thank the people who recommended her!
((((Xena))) Don't beat yourself up. How could you have known?
Those verbal agreements/deals can be costly. I've been where you are, and gotten ripped off big time. I avoid them now. I have at least two real horror stories, and a few minor ones.
Xena, I empathize. Try not to beat yourself up. Many people have been in similar circumstances to yours at least once.
Richard
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i know many like myself have had alot of different experiances and have met many different people since leaving the jw's.my question is do you think you knew or found people to be more intelligent in the organization or have you found people to be more stimulating and intelligent outside the organization, setting aside the fact that the people in the organization are apart of it?
i'm just curious as to peoples experiances.
This is based on my experience as a Witness, and observations made while I was still a loyal Witness.
There are dumb people everywhere, but there are more smart people outside of the Witnesses than inside. I found that when conversation strayed from Witness topics, most JWs were intellectually lost.
I noticed a general dumbing down of people the longer they stayed as Witnesses. Even while I was a Witness, I attributed this to the amount of time spent studying WT literature, attending meetings and generally not taking in any non-WT information and having few non-JW interests. I was dismayed to find that when the topic was not about a meeting or literature, most JWs floundered.
It really bothered me to see this difference in my ex's sister. Before baptism, she was able to talk on a variety of topics and was a really interesting person to have a conversation with. Several years after baptism, she didn't have much to say outside of the latest WT meeting or literature. It was so sad to see such a mind decline, and such an interesting lady turn so boring.
I found most JWs were just plain boring to talk to. My non-JW friends tended to have a wide variety of interests and were very stimulating to be around.
Now, part of this may be certain biases. The JWs tend to attract the lower educated classes, and not those who think for themselves. Then the JW religion discourages outside sources of information and "independent thinking". In my career, the situation was quite the opposite. Hi-tech tends to attract very intelligent, sharp people. People who are creative and like finding out new things and attacking problems in new ways.
I also found a difference between those born in North America and those from other parts of the world. North Americans seemed to focus only on their own countries and to talk about sex almost continually. Those from other countries, such as Europeans and those from the Middle East tended to have a broad view of the world and were more aware of what was happening inside and outside of North America.
Now, I am not saying that all JWs are dumb or that all North Americans are not aware of what is happening in the world. There are intelligent and non-intelligent in any group. We are all human, and groups of people will include the whole range of intelligence.
Also, in my life, the difference between the boxed-in JW why of thinking and the generally free-thinking hi-tech world would be dramatic.
Richard
Edited by - Skeptic on 7 February 2003 16:10:9
i have been reading all of your posts for about a year now.
what seems to be quite common is the emotional turmoil that comes from leaving this cult.
some return to cult life.
Shakita,
I agree completely. The JWs are a cult, no question about it.
Here is my thoughts on it from my website:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/2260/jw/jwHcg.html
Richard
this posess a seriouse problem to some youngsters within the congregations,are the elders and magazines to controlling ?????.
ayoung couple started married life of ,without the big bang, yes ladies the husband never knew where to put it ,even three months after his wedding night he still hadnot cosumated the wedding,eventualy after 18 months the wife runs of with a worldly man, .
are the youngsters getting married to quick / to soon.. does this show to the effect of mind control over some people ,that they are bombarded with negative all through there lives as j.w.. this is just the tip of the pencil how else are people affected by the magazines and elders,.
O.K. sceptic I'll ask????Are you kidding about the Muslim & the sheet??? I guess your pulling my leg Eh? If not explain !!!!! I am not to old to read "new things learned'
mouthy, I could be wrong, I am just referring to what my Muslim friends tell me. I was told it is considered disgusting to see your wife naked. I asked how one can have sex if you can't see each other naked? Then he told me about the sheet with the hole in it. He swears that he is telling the truth, and I don't think he was joking.
After your question, I tried to look this up on the Net, and the closest reference I got was that it was OK for a husband and wife to be naked, if they were under a common sheet. Obviously, if they were both under the same sheet, they would be able to make love with nothing between them.
So, I guess the answer is that I don't know for certain. Maybe others have the answer?
Richard
this posess a seriouse problem to some youngsters within the congregations,are the elders and magazines to controlling ?????.
ayoung couple started married life of ,without the big bang, yes ladies the husband never knew where to put it ,even three months after his wedding night he still hadnot cosumated the wedding,eventualy after 18 months the wife runs of with a worldly man, .
are the youngsters getting married to quick / to soon.. does this show to the effect of mind control over some people ,that they are bombarded with negative all through there lives as j.w.. this is just the tip of the pencil how else are people affected by the magazines and elders,.
Nope, this one is not the JWs fault. This husband and wife could not ask a friend, their parents or their doctor?? They can't find a bookstore or library and peek into a book to find out? Both of them didn't have feelings of wanting that in there? Or of wanting that in at least two other places?
They could not experiment and figure it out? Is this the union of two very stupid people? This doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out.
Hell, Muslims do it through a sheet with a hole in it. If they can figure it out under those conditions, anyone can figure it out.
Sounds to me like a fable or else the husband didn't want to have sex. From personal experience, I can tell you that some people will use any lie not to have sex with their mate. I don't blame the wife for running off.
Richard
every year there is a "special talk" given around the end of march or april.
having heard dozens of them over the years, i never quite figured out what was "special" about them.
certainly no "new light" or anything ... just ... well .... the same stuff.. am i correct or not in my observation ???.
Having heard dozens of them over the years, I never quite figured out what was "Special" about them. Certainly no "new light" or anything ... just ... well .... the same stuff.Am I correct or not in my observation ???
I agree. My reaction has always been, "What is so special about this talk?" They were never worth the hype.
Most of ours were given by Fred Franz and the talk was always on the history of the Organization. Freddie was a fascinating man, and to be able to do what he did at 94 was remarkable. But the man could barely speak, and I never did understand what he was saying. If he had been an ordinary JW, he would not have qualified for giving special talks.
Ray Franz mentions in one of his books that special talks are sometimes given to justify the WTBS flying the brother out on his vacation. Since Fred Franz gave a few special talks in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, can anyone tell me if he had relatives or friends in the Ottawa area? Why would he go to Ottawa to give his very non-understandable talks? Political meetings with the govt. might be a reason, but something tells me the reason was personal.
Richard
i have been reading all of your posts for about a year now.
what seems to be quite common is the emotional turmoil that comes from leaving this cult.
some return to cult life.
Although, some may refer to the Jehovah's Witnesses as a high control group, it is unmistakeably, a cult.
Yes, the JWs are a cult. They definitely fit the profile of a bible-based cult.
The word cult is often misused and is not precise. Hence, the term high control group is the term that is more accurate.
Excellent article, thanks for posting it.
Richard
Edited by - Skeptic on 6 February 2003 13:2:0
So , the society is suggesting (page 10) that if you arent getting enough, you need to eat like a pig?
LOL, Dolphin! Well, that would explain the weight problem most Dubs have...cause I can assure you that most Dubs are not getting enough!
I also know from experience that their suggested alternative activites don't satisfy either!
Richard
