Posts by Skeptic

8

Different Languages

by Ariell in

jw
friends

why do we speak different languages if not for the reason given in the bible?

Skeptic

I am going to take a stab in the dark and say geographic isolation. That is, when groups are physically isolated for centuries, their languages will evolve differently.

163

Moral absolutes

by Aztec in

i keep saying i am going to start a thread on this topic so here goes.... what, if anything, is always morally wrong?

murder, rape, incest?

how much do you think your belief, or lack thereof, in a higher power influences your opinion?.

Skeptic

logansrun, thank you for illustrating your point in a non-disgusting manner.

This discussion reminds me of the question, "If you could achieve permanent world peace by killing one innocent child, would you?" The answers you give indicate your value system.

The problem is with the word absolute. Once a person says something is always wrong, people can come up with scenarios where it might not be. Other problems are around the definitions of words.

Rape is one. Most people define rape as forcing unwanted sex on someone. In Canada, having sex with someone who said "No" is rape. This is normally a good law, but there have been abuses. Let's say a man wants to have sex with a woman and she says no once. If she later changes her mind and makes love, he can still be charged with rape.

If a woman is drunk when she has sex, the man can be charged with rape. Though it is a good law conceptionally, this one has been abused as well.

9

how smart are your friends? are they smarter than you or not

by primitivegenius in

most of mine are smarter than me cuz mesaaa slowwwwwwwwwwwww

Skeptic

I am no slouch mentally, but my friends are smarter than me. I am attracted to intelligent people, especially those who I can learn from. Hence, my friends generally have a higher IQ than me, and I have trouble keeping up to them!

163

Moral absolutes

by Aztec in

i keep saying i am going to start a thread on this topic so here goes.... what, if anything, is always morally wrong?

murder, rape, incest?

how much do you think your belief, or lack thereof, in a higher power influences your opinion?.

Skeptic

If God has that ultimate power to create our lives and spawned the human race, then he does have the right to decide what is absolutely right and wrong. It wouldn't matter what our puny little minds thought.

Jourles, I am answering this more for the benefit of Christians on this forum, as what you stated is a common Christian viewpoint.

I never did get the connection between having the ability to create life and having the right to then set right and wrong behaviour for the life we created.

If a scientist developed ability to create life from non-living matter, does he have the right to decide what happens to that life? What if he is a pedophile and creates a human baby from non-living matter. Does he then have the right to molest that child? After all, he gave it life.

If God existed and gave us life, does He/She/It have the wisdom to know how we should live? I have yet to see evidence of that.

Another scenario: What if God was a cruel SOB, and made life just so He could torment it?

Any RAPE is morally wrong...ALWAYS

I know I would not touch on the topic of rape, defined as forcing unwanted sex on someone. I have a friend who's previous girlfriend was forced into prostitution as a child by her father. She was forced to be a hooker for years. She was then sold to another pimp and forced to work for him. She was forever scarred and suffered horribly all her life.

My friend got her off the streets. He eventually located her father, and with the help of other friends, forced him to have anal sex with a horse.

This disgusting man was raped. Was it morally wrong after what he did to his own daughter?

Now you know why I find this topic sickening to think about. And this story is a minor one compared to some scenarios I could tell.

163

Moral absolutes

by Aztec in

i keep saying i am going to start a thread on this topic so here goes.... what, if anything, is always morally wrong?

murder, rape, incest?

how much do you think your belief, or lack thereof, in a higher power influences your opinion?.

Skeptic

Yerusalyim,

Note INTENTIONAL taking of INNOCENT human life. Were I as a soldier INTENTIONALLY trying to kill an innocent civilian it would be murder. Thanks goodness the US doesn't make it a habit of INTENTIONALLY targeting INNOCENT civilians.

First, understand I am not criticizing military action, or military service.

Secondly, how do we define intentional in this case? Surely the military stategists know that when you bomb a city, innocent children are likely to die. Even when they plan to minimize civilian casualties, there are circumstances when they know innocents are going to die. I believe the term for this is "acceptable losses".

The moral issue here then becomes not the intentional taking of innocent lives, but the benefits of taking those lives verus the costs of not taking them (i.e., not taking military action). Hence, the morality is still relative.

A few months ago, Israel sent a fighter plane and blew up a house. A terrorist whom they had been pursuing for years was living on the second floor of the house, and they knew that this was their only chance to get him, as he was extremely elusive.

Israel knew a family was living on the first floor, and knew the family was home. They knowingly fired at the house, knowing that the innocent family would be killed or seriously injured. I can't remember the number of deaths, but I do remember the photos of the seriously injured young children.

Israel considered this to be an acceptable cost, factoring in the number of lives that would be saved once the terrorist was killed.

Israel intentionally killed/injured that innocent family. Was their action absolutely morally wrong?

I will leave the discussions on rape and child abuse alone, as it distrubs me beyond measure. I am aware of some very sick scenarios which would not be appropriate for this forum.

163

Moral absolutes

by Aztec in

i keep saying i am going to start a thread on this topic so here goes.... what, if anything, is always morally wrong?

murder, rape, incest?

how much do you think your belief, or lack thereof, in a higher power influences your opinion?.

Skeptic

I don't believe in moral absolutes. Morality should depend on the circumstances and situation, including cultural considerations. There may be some moral absolutes , but chances are, there are not.

Jourles,

Typically though, someone's definition of right and wrong stems from their own life experiences and what they want to be right and wrong.

If you're looking for that universal absolute, you will have to wait until (God) appears and tells the world in person that such and such is unequivocally right or wrong and your idea of right and wrong is f**ked up. By then we will all be dead, so this issue will not matter to anyone of us anymore.

If "God" came and told us what was a universal absolute, then would it not just be what God wants to be right or wrong? Hence, the situation is no different than if a human decided morality.

Yerusalyim,

Do circumstances mitigate guilt? Not really, it's not less of a sin to murder someone because you want to steal his food, than it is to murder him to steal his money.

I heard of a case where a man kidnapped a very young boy and kept him as a sex slave for ten years before the boy was found again. The boy had been repeatedly raped and made to do all kinds of degrading things. The boy was messed in the head for life.

While the accused was being transported to trial, the father of the boy shot the accused. Cold-blooded premeditated murder. The father served or minimal jail time, as the court decided that circumstances did mitgate the man's guilt.

Even murder is not a moral absolute. I don't think many people would be outraged if Paul Bernardo or Karla H. were murdered. They slowly tortured two teenagers to death over a weekend.

I (and I think the bible) define murder as the intentional taking of INNOCENT human life.

I mean no offense when I say this, and I ask it only to make a point about moral absolutes. If memory serves me right, you have served in the military. (I consider military service to be a good thing, so I thank you.)

In a war, innocent lives are often lost. It is a cost of war. Let's face it, when you bomb a city, innocent civilians or children can and do get killed. If your definition is as above, then is that not murder?

52

Would you be willing to admit it if you've been a hypocrite?

by onacruse in

for the last 20 years of my association with the jws, i was, more or less, a hypocrite.

they taught things i didn't believe, but i went to the meetings and, by my presence there and by my "non-answers" i in essence supported something that i didn't believe.. it's a hard thing to say "i was a hypocrite.".

i was.. craig

Skeptic

If a hypocrite admits he's a hypocrite, is he still a hypocrite?
Maybe, just liar?

LOL! Good questions, Craig!

52

Would you be willing to admit it if you've been a hypocrite?

by onacruse in

for the last 20 years of my association with the jws, i was, more or less, a hypocrite.

they taught things i didn't believe, but i went to the meetings and, by my presence there and by my "non-answers" i in essence supported something that i didn't believe.. it's a hard thing to say "i was a hypocrite.".

i was.. craig

Skeptic

I freely admit to being a hypocrite. It says me the effort of trying to prove that I am not. Teenagers have a radar for hypocrisy, and I avoid the endless arguments about whether I am or not by just admitting that I am.

When told that I am a hypcrite, my standard reply is, "Yes, I am a hypocrite. I have had years of practice and am very good at it."

8

Is Society Really That Degraded?

by pettygrudger in

jw
friends

i just read this on another thread:it seems to me , that nowadays "anything goes" and thats a shame.

do any of you really believe that our societies morals are any less decrepid than any other time in history?

if so, can someone tell me of any time in history that was more "morally" righteous, pure or wholesome?.

Skeptic

People have been the same throughout history. Massacre, torture, brutal crimes have been done throughout history.

Personally, I think things have improved over time.

33

Theocratic School Talks, they were the worst ! hated doing them, did you ?

by run dont walk in

jw
friends

remember back to the days you were in the theocratic school and had to give talks, were they the worst or what, i remember they were suppose to run about 6-8 minutes, i had some short as 3. the talks were pointless, you would just throw some mumble jumble together and go up and talk, first the introduction (and don't forget your gestures), then read the weekly scripture and then the conclusion, all your words of wisdom.

i would rank this second on the worst list next to field service (still # 1).. how about you, did you enjoy doing them ?

did you even prepare for them ?

Skeptic

The TMS was one of the few good things about being a Witness for me. When I first joined the school, I was very nervous about giving talks. After making a complete embarrassment of myself during a talk and finding that it didn't matter, I have not been nervous since.

Brothers have it easier than sisters since we don't have a householder. We can make our talks in point form, which makes them much easier to give. I loved giving talks on short notice. One advantage of short notice talks is that everyone knows you did not prepare for the talk, so they have no expectations.

The TMS made me a good public speaker which has helped my career. It has helped me make presentations to co-workers and upper management. It helped me teach night school, and it now helps me make presentations to clients.

I have many pleasant memories of the TMS.