Moral absolutes

by Aztec 163 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Aztec
    Aztec

    I keep saying I am going to start a thread on this topic so here goes...

    What, if anything, is always morally wrong? Murder, rape, incest? How much do you think your belief, or lack thereof, in a higher power influences your opinion?

    The problem I've run into is definitions. How one person defines murder or child abuse is not the same as someone elses definition. There are no universal absolutes and this makes defining anything as always immoral tricky. My contention is that there are no moral absolutes. I would have, and did, openly state differantly only 5 or 6 months ago. My opinion on the matter has changed considerably as I've read and researched this topic quite a bit as of late.

    I've yet to finish reading "Crime and Punishment" though and we'll see if Dostoevsky can change my mind yet again.

    ~Aztec

  • OrbitingTheSun
    OrbitingTheSun

    I don't believe in moral absolutes, either. I tend to agree with Nietzsche about morality.

  • Jourles
    Jourles
    The problem I've run into is definitions. How one person defines murder or child abuse is not the same as someone elses definition. There are no universal absolutes and this makes defining anything as always immoral tricky.

    You've already answered your own question to an extent. Depending on the source that one uses, there will always be several definitions of what is and what is not morally correct. For instance, someone who believes that the bible is the absolute authority on morality would define homosexulality as being wrong. An athiest who does not believe in the bible, or God for that matter, feels that if society allows it and the law of the land allows it then it can be morally acceptable. Another example could be capital punishment. Some bible followers feel that a person who murdered another human in cold blood should be executed because the bible says to give an "eye for an eye." While other bible followers feel that his life should not be taken and to let God sort it out in due time(isn't this the position of JW's these days??). So even here, people who profess to follow the bible can have differing opinions on right and wrong.

    In the end, it is all about definitions. But definitions can be taken from a great deal of sources. We have the Bible, dictionaries, *pseudo* intellectuals, lawmakers, think tanks, etc., and the list can go on and on. Typically though, someone's definition of right and wrong stems from their own life experiences and what they want to be right and wrong.

    If you're looking for that universal absolute, you will have to wait until (God) appears and tells the world in person that such and such is unequivocally right or wrong and your idea of right and wrong is f**ked up. By then we will all be dead, so this issue will not matter to anyone of us anymore.

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    What is "good" and what is "evil" is determined by perception. If cats ruled the world, showers and water hoses would be illegal.

  • maxwell
    maxwell

    hmmm. Of those three examples murder, rape and incest, I can't think of any circumstance where rape is not wrong. I have heard of women who have rape fantasies, believe it or not, but if you want it, then by definition (those querky definitions), its not rape. Murder? Is it murder when you kill someone in self or family defense? Incest, thought of as bad these days but was acceptable in past cultures and in certain circumstances in some cultures today.

    When I was a JW, I had a lot of moral absolutes. Now, I don't know that there is a God. Yes, I think my lack of knowledge and loss of interest in making the pursuit of knowing the unknowable has affected my view of moral absolutes. Is it always bad to lie? Is it ok to tell a white lie? Personally, I think at times its best just to withhold information, but as my mind stands now, I would not think badly of someone for telling a "white" lie if there is such a thing. I hear people shout about honesty more than anything.

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Aztec,

    Still believing as a Catholic Christian of course I disagree with you, there ARE moral absolutes. While PEOPLE may define and redefine words to suit their needs God Doesn't. When God said, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, etc, those were moral absolutes. Do circumstances mitigate guilt? Not really, it's not less of a sin to murder someone because you want to steal his food, than it is to murder him to steal his money. I (and I think the bible) define murder as the intentional taking of INNOCENT human life.

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Aztec,

    Still believing as a Catholic Christian of course I disagree with you, there ARE moral absolutes. While PEOPLE may define and redefine words to suit their needs God Doesn't. When God said, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, etc, those were moral absolutes. Do circumstances mitigate guilt? Not really, it's not less of a sin to murder someone because you want to steal his food, than it is to murder him to steal his money. I (and I think the bible) define murder as the intentional taking of INNOCENT human life.

  • Jourles
    Jourles

    Yeru,

    When God said, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, etc, those were moral absolutes.
    I (and I think the bible) define murder as the intentional taking of INNOCENT human life.

    I'm not sure if you have ever been asked this before, but seeing that you are in the military and no doubt support it fully, do you feel that it was murder when the USA started bombing Iraq and innocent civilians were killed? If not murder, what would you call it? I'm just using this example because you stated that murder is a moral absolute and that intentionally taking human life is murder. The US knew that there would be collateral damage when the bombs fell. Is collateral damage, killing innocent civilians, ok in times of war?

  • setfreefinally
    setfreefinally

    If you read the old testament there were times when God condoned or even ordered the killing of women infants and children. So is murder wrong or morally wrong when God orders it??

  • unique1
    unique1

    I believe anybody that touches a young child in a sexual manner IS morally wrong and should be tortured and shot on sight.

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