There's an interesting book _The Physics of Immorality, Modern Cosmology, God, and the Resurrection of the Dead_ by physicist Frank Tipler. It explores the idea that, since information is never truly destroyed, information about everything a person was or did can be collected and used to re-constitute that person.
I have a copy (somewhere) and it's a good read. Excerpts and reactions can be found on the net.
Skimmer
JoinedPosts by Skimmer
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71
Where Do We Really Go When We Die ?
by flipper inoh, boy.
just had these thoughts rattling around in my head a few days, so wanted to get your takes.
my college son and i were talking and he said a fellow worker in his 50's said he had been aware his mother was sick and dying in another town , but had not died yet.
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Skimmer
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71
Where Do We Really Go When We Die ?
by flipper inoh, boy.
just had these thoughts rattling around in my head a few days, so wanted to get your takes.
my college son and i were talking and he said a fellow worker in his 50's said he had been aware his mother was sick and dying in another town , but had not died yet.
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31
Are we being watched by the Watchtower?
by lfcviking ini've heard a few posts on this forum suggesting the wt society has its own 'secret' team of people who lurk on this site for information purposes but also to identify individuals who have left the org and become 'apostate' and are actively working/campaigning against the wt society.
can anybody here verify this?
is this actually happening?
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Skimmer
There is no doubt in my mind that this site, among others, is being actively monitored by the WTBTS. (And also unofficially by countless elders looking for dirt on so called "apostates".)
It goes back much longer than JWD has been around. I recall discussions in the early 1990s on USENET talk.religion.misc that almost certainly influenced articles in the WT and KM way back then.
But, hey, who gives a rat's ass anyway? I HOPE they're looking, because as the saying goes "a thinking JW is soon to be an ex-JW" and exposure to the truth about "the TRUTH" just might help liberate these people. -
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Does Anyone Think The WT Is Getting Rid of US$s for Euros?
by uwishufish ini wonder if they are moving investments into non us$ denominated instruments?.
the us$ is now in the 77 range as measured by the usdx (us$ index) .this is a record low.
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Skimmer
More likely the WTBTS will continue to play the printing redistribution game. Just as they've dropped printing in France to avoid taxes, they might move all printing out of Europe and into the US to avoid losses from the relative gain of the euro vs the US dollar.
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Is There Something You'd Like To Tell A Witness "Lurker" Right Now?
by minimus inwe know there are a lot of "lurkers" here.
they might not have posted yet but they do check this site out.
would you like to express anything to them to help them in any way??
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Skimmer
To lurkers:
Do not waste another day, hour, or minute in thralldom to the WTBTS and its 130 year history of lies, deceit, cover-ups, and failed prophecies. By remaining a part of the filthy organization, you only help it to continue to snare innocent victims. Now that you know the truth about the "Truth", you will someday be held accountable for your actions if you continue with its corruption.
Don't bother with a long "fade".
Don't bother with a long disassociation letter which will be ignored.
Don't bother trying to make changes that won't be made.
JUST WALK AWAY.
From your pal Skimmer, now out for 34 years. -
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What were the witnesses beliefs in 1973?
by Paralipomenon inwell the time has come.
i no longer have any motivation to keep up with a fade.
my wife is out, my kids were never really in and we're moving on.
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Skimmer
Also in 1973:
Firearms: allowed for self defense and food hunting only.
Voting: absolutely prohibited.
Standing during national anthem or pledge of allegiance: absolutely prohibited.
Alternative service: absolutely prohibited. At this time in the US, the military draft ended although registrations continued for a few years before being suspended for a few more years. Some JWs thought that even registering itself was a sign of disassociation. Maybe this is still true. Prior to the ending of the draft, elders could certify that a full time draft age male pioneer was eligible for exclusion under the religious/clergy exemption. However, in practice the elders would demand at least six full sequential months as a pioneer before offering certification. Male publishers that weren't pioneers had no chance of getting an exemption.
As far as I can remember, every single damned meeting had references to the immanence of the Big A, only a matter of a year or two in the future. Not once was there a reference to the failed prophecies of 1941, 1925, 1914 or any other date. Without any Internet, the only way of finding out about these lies and other cover-ups (e.g., Jellyfish Russell's crazy pyramidology) was by reading the old literature stashed away in the congregation library.
Retail prices: magazine, US$0.05; small book, US$0.50; green bible, US$1.25; large print black bible, US$5.00; Aid To Bible Understanding, US$7.00. -
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What were the witnesses beliefs in 1973?
by Paralipomenon inwell the time has come.
i no longer have any motivation to keep up with a fade.
my wife is out, my kids were never really in and we're moving on.
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Skimmer
Other items from 1973:
Magazine subscriptions were still available in the US; stopped after donation change.
Books were still sold by mail (and advertised with prices in the magazines); stopped after donation change.
Disfellowship announcement: "<NAME> has been disfellowshipped for conduct unbecoming a Christian"; changed later to avoid slander lawsuits.
Disassociate announcement: "<NAME> has disassociated himself/herself". (Always used if someone joined the military or other unapproved group and used to avoid treason or sedition charges; changed later for legal reasons.)
Bethel enslavement minimal period was four years.
The 1974 date was unofficial and originated from Fred Franz; it was not supposed to leak to the congregations but it did anyway.
At least some of the 144,000 would make it through the Big A. (Is this still believed?)
The 7,000 year "creative day" and the corresponding 49,000 year "creative week" teachings were commonly believed.
A total ban on blood and all blood component usage, other than a very narrow exception for hemophiliacs.
The "no blood card" was printed on the back of the "I'm a minister" card; there were no JW Hospital Liaison Committees.
All of the five the meetings were an hour long.
No workbooks or quizzes.
Regular publisher discount on literature was 20%. Pioneer discount was greater (50%?); missionary discount was greater still (80%?).
Parties, picnics, and some other social gatherings were allowed. -
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old pink songbook / pamphlet style one
by monophonic inanyone have one of the old pink songbooks?.
or know how much they pop up for on ebay?.
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Skimmer
I recall these from my brief association back in the early 1970s. There were two versions: a US$0.25 simple paper edition and a US$0.75 leatherette, same color edition with gilded page edges.
It's weird the things we remember.
My copy of the song book along with all the other WTBTS "literature" I was tricked into buying wound up fueling a fireplace one winter evening not too long after. The fire lasted for several hours, not like the eternity of fire destined for the authors of said literature. -
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What is a "pony"?
by Mystery inafter a few responses; i will tell you what the circuit overseer told my mom (and the others out in service) the definition of pony is.. i can not find his definition anywhere on the internet or in the dictionary - maybe someone can enlighten me on the definition of "pony".. .
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Skimmer
pony |'pone| noun ( pl. -nies) 1 a horse of a small breed, esp. one whose height at the withers is below 14 hands 2 inches (58 inches). • ( the ponies) informal racehorses : he had been playing the ponies on the side. 2 informal a small drinking glass or the drink contained in it : a pony of vodka. 3 a literal translation of a foreign-language text, used illicitly by students; a trot. 4 Brit., informal twenty-five pounds sterling. verb ( -nies, -nied) [ intrans. ] ( pony up) informal pay (money), esp. as a contribution or an unavoidable expense : getting ready to pony up for their children’s college education. ORIGIN mid 17th cent.: probably from French poulenet ‘small foal,’ diminutive of poulain, from late Latin pullanus, from Latin pullus ‘young animal.’
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What happens when we die?
by Tatiana inis death an end, a beginning, or just another stage on the path?
i watched a movie last night called the eye 2. it was about the buddhist belief in reincarnation.
in the movie, souls wait for women to give birth in order to reincarnate into the baby.
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Skimmer
The Catholic view of death is not easily summarized in a few words.
For a somewhat official Catholic expository, see:
http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/lastmenu.htm
Summary of Doctrine on the Last Things
The last things are death, judgment, heaven and hell.
Death is the separation of man's mortal body and immortal soul. It comes to all men as a result of original sin. It is a temporary state, for at the end of the world, all men shall rise again to be judged by Christ. Thus the whole man, body and soul, will be rewarded for the good or evil that he has done, body and soul, in this life.
At the moment of death, each human person is judged by God based on his conduct in this life, and goes immediately to his reward or punishment.Moreover, at the end of the world, Jesus Christ will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead. At that time, God's whole plan for the world shall be revealed, and his mercy and justice demonstrated.
Heaven is the eternal state of perfect happiness resulting from the face to face vision of God, which is the reward of those who have served Him in this life.
Hell is the eternal state of torment and despair which awaits those who, in this life, have freely rejected God and the happiness which He offerse.
Before the end of the world, there will be an intermediate state called purgatory. There, those who are bound for heaven, but whose love for God is still marred by some imperfection, undergo a temporary period of purifying suffering. When this purification is complete, they are fit to enter God's presence and are admitted to the joys of heaven.