Skimmer

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Posts by Skimmer

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  16

  New member....

  by poohbear1962 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  ....this is only my second post, so please be gentle!!!

  thank you all for such a wonderful, supporting, loving, caring forum... where the truth at last can be spoken!!!

  ...i have soooooo many posts to make, and soooooo little time!!!

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  Skimmer

  Hello poohbear1962:

  Welcome aboard.

  Please feel free to tell us your story, just as so many of us have already posted our own.
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  4

  Why Another 1975 Scenario is Unlikely

  by Stephanus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i note that (the brothers) some are speculating that 2005 now exists as the dubs' next "final" date to work towards.

  at this point in time, i can't see it being an effective carrot for attracting people outside the witnesses.

  basically, things are too good.. 1975 probably looked like a great date for the end, because so much had gone wrong in the early 70s; the post wwii "long (economic) boom" came to a screeching halt, the first of the "oil shocks" occurred, the us was losing the vietnam war and looked like it could lose the cold war with the ussr.. interestingly, while the jws were getting off on bad events in the world at large, so were certain elements of mainstream "christendom".

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  Skimmer

  The 1975 scenario will not happen again for several reasons:

  1) Too many people still within the WTBTS remember the disasters of the 1975 prophecy such as the great membership turnover and drop in growth following the failure of the Big A to arrive on time. The absolute numbers are far greater from the 1975 debacle than from the earlier debacles (1942, 1925, 1918, and 1914).

  2) The 1995 "new light" on the generation teaching makes it hard for many to accept any "new light" dealing with new dates or re-interpretation of old dates. A lot of older JWs/xJWs are justifiably annoyed that they have been the victims of a fifty year bait and switch (the old generation teaching) and so will not be too eager to take a bite at the next bait.

  3) Any attempt at replaying the 1975 false prophecy for a new date runs up against the massive amount of evidence on the Internet and this can all be used against any new proposed schedule for the Big A.

  4) In general, people are more skeptical today than decades ago.

  5) It may be that the governing body has learned a lesson; also, they are probably justified in the fear of one or more members bailing out with another tell-all book.

  6) The WT corporations may just refuse to propagate any fanciful predictions from the governing body that will cut into their bottom line. Who will bother with the charitable giving program if The End is just around the corner?

  7) Any definite predictions will make the "dangerous cult" label stick even more tightly, and they can't afford being banned or curtailed in revenue rich countries.

  With the above in mind, how might the WTBTS milk the innocents with their traditional Big A scare? It has been so profitable for them that it would be hard to come up with a substitute. So I think they will try again, but in a different way. They will use a whispering campaign. Specifically, they will start controlled rumors about the new schedule that will have an air of authenticity and these will be passed quietly from Brooklyn to all the rank and file. The WTBTS will not publish any exact information on this (might show up on the Internet), nor will they explicitly announce it at any public assemblies (too many tape recorders). Yet it will get out all the same, some date or maybe a short range of years that soon all will know while never allowing hard evidence for opposers. The sad thing is that the strategy will work; the governing body knows that most JWs are rumor lovers and the GB will use this to their advantage.

  The literature will go out, the money will come in, and when the date(s) flop yet again, all the blame will be given to the rank and file for the sin of untheocratic speculation.
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  56

  Urban Legends!

  by ISP in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  its amazing the extent these circulate in the wt world.

  i am not so sure, but it develops a powerful folklore amongst jws....often with a moral at the end!

  typically these circulate as experiences given in talks and are then adopted by the masses as truth.. for example, anyone hear the ul about the married couple where the wife had to have a routine blood check.

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  Skimmer

  The following is not really WTBTS urban legend material; it's better filed under the topic of speculative beliefs:

  1) It is sometimes possible to detect demon possessed people because they had a visible extra shine to their eyes.

  2) With regard to planetary orbits, Newton, Kepler, and Einstein had it all wrong. Each planet has an angel assigned to it that provides guidance and motive power.

  Did either of these have some initial cause in WTBTS literature? They both were known by word of mouth in the early 1970s United States.
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  16

  Standing for flag/anthem prohibition; new light...

  by Skimmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in recent years we have seen wtbts "new light" that has eliminated the prohibitions on alternative service, voting, and (perhaps) carrying certain types of identity cards.. given that the practices of standing for the national flag or standing during the playing of the national anthem have been condemned in print in the same paragraphs as the above mentioned new light, isn't it about time that standing for the flag/anthem will become a conscience matter?.

  i would hope so, because not standing for these occasions is more than a little embarrassing for younger people still in school.

  standing is merely a sign of respect and honor, and this is clearly allowed by scripture.

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  Skimmer

  It seems that there has not been a consistent policy on standing for the national flag or anthem. (Not a big surprise.)

  Can anyone accurately give the current WTBTS stance? It appears that standing is okay, but saluting, pledging, and singing is out.
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  16

  Standing for flag/anthem prohibition; new light...

  by Skimmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in recent years we have seen wtbts "new light" that has eliminated the prohibitions on alternative service, voting, and (perhaps) carrying certain types of identity cards.. given that the practices of standing for the national flag or standing during the playing of the national anthem have been condemned in print in the same paragraphs as the above mentioned new light, isn't it about time that standing for the flag/anthem will become a conscience matter?.

  i would hope so, because not standing for these occasions is more than a little embarrassing for younger people still in school.

  standing is merely a sign of respect and honor, and this is clearly allowed by scripture.

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  Skimmer

  Hello Gopher:

  Perhaps there were differences due to time and locale. For the time period in which I was involved, the late 1960s to the early 1970s, it was considered a disfellowshipping offense for a student to stand for the daily school morning flag pledge. Maybe some things have changed since then.

  About that time period a close family member was working at one of the local schools which the JWs wanted to rent for an assembly. The JW organizer requested that the flag mounted on the wall be removed. He was told in no uncertain terms that it was going to stay. They rented anyway. I also heard that during the assembly, the custodial staff had to chase away several JWs who had gotten into the basement without authorization. The trespassers had needed somewhere to smoke undetected.
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  23

  Things to do when they come knocking

  by Skimmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i encourage people not to either verbally or physically harass jws when they come knocking on the door.. saying this, i recognize that it is ever so tempting to try the following:.

  1) answering the door wearing a t-shirt with a logo such as "satan rules", "member of the evil slave class", and "1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, what's next?".

  2) answering the door wearing only underwear (or less).. 3) dropping a name of some governing body member and suggesting that you got to know him when he and you were in jail together, and then ask if they know if he's stopped some particular filthy habit.. 4) answering the door while brandishing a pitchfork.. 5) say that you're so glad they came and that it's good for people to have an open mind about their religion and to be willing to change; once you get them excited with this, show them a copy of the wtbts failed prophecy list (backed by quotes from their own literature) and ask if they are open minded as well.. 6) as most jws have never looked at a copy of _studies in the scriptures_, tell them that you've gotten many of your religious beliefs by pyramidology; then show them a copy of _sits_ and point to the wtbts copyright notice.. i have #5 and #6 ready for the next visit.

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  Skimmer

  I found my copy of _Studies in the Scriptures_ (Vol. 1, "The Divine Plan of the Ages", complete with the Egyptian flying goober on the front) and the little blue pyramid fold-out is still there and in good shape after over hundred years (Copyright 1886, The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, Brooklyn, NY). It's ready for the next knocker.

  I also have some print-outs ready on the 1975 cover-up and the Big List (about a hundred pages) of failed WTBTS prophecies; bot are backed up by plenty of WTBTS verbatim references.

  Now should I spring any of these on the uninvited callers right away, or should I first let them have a chance to give their complete sales pitch? I'd really like to get a copy of the latest WTBTS reference CD-ROM although I doubt if these are usually carried around in the field service. Would their love of placing paid literature be enough to keep them from running in fear from "old light"?
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  16

  Standing for flag/anthem prohibition; new light...

  by Skimmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in recent years we have seen wtbts "new light" that has eliminated the prohibitions on alternative service, voting, and (perhaps) carrying certain types of identity cards.. given that the practices of standing for the national flag or standing during the playing of the national anthem have been condemned in print in the same paragraphs as the above mentioned new light, isn't it about time that standing for the flag/anthem will become a conscience matter?.

  i would hope so, because not standing for these occasions is more than a little embarrassing for younger people still in school.

  standing is merely a sign of respect and honor, and this is clearly allowed by scripture.

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  2. 
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• 

  Skimmer

  In recent years we have seen WTBTS "new light" that has eliminated the prohibitions on alternative service, voting, and (perhaps) carrying certain types of identity cards.

  Given that the practices of standing for the national flag or standing during the playing of the national anthem have been condemned in print in the same paragraphs as the above mentioned new light, isn't it about time that standing for the flag/anthem will become a conscience matter?

  I would hope so, because not standing for these occasions is more than a little embarrassing for younger people still in school. Standing is merely a sign of respect and honor, and this is clearly allowed by scripture. On the other hand, the WTBTS may want to retain the policy just to help keep make it harder for students to develop "worldly" friends at school.

  Of course, the WTBTS has no problem at all respecting and amassing all kinds of national symbols as long as they are the ones printed on the incoming currency.
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  22

  thoughts about miscarriage

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i remember the date, may 15, 1991, it was the date my wife miscarried and a young life was lost.

  there was no funeral, few remarks of support.

  i will never forget the remark of my mother, well it never was really a baby after all.

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  Skimmer

  As is well known, the Catholic church teaches that life begins at conception and so it understands the seriousness of a miscarriage. From the official catechism, section 1261:

  "As regards children who have died without Baptism, the church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: 'Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,' allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism."

  There is an official blessing service for the parents of a miscarried child.

  More information: http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/19991201/SCRMNTL/blssng_mscrg.htm
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  8

  Bible Study WT June,1 2001

  by ISP in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is from the back cover of the wt.1june 2001. bible study.

  not to be read without the presence of a priest.

  this warning appears at the beginning of some bibles owned by catholics.

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  Skimmer

  Update:

  Yesterday I received a reply to the e-mail that I had sent to Kay Murdy of the Catholic Bible Institute in Los Angeles. She has reviewed this thread and emphatically disagrees with the context and the stance proposed by the WTBTS. She will be contacting Brooklyn for a printed retraction, and I hope she gets it.

  Of course, long time observers are not surprised at instances of WTBTS misquoting. The biggest examples are the anti-evolution books and the most serious examples are the various appeals to authority seen for incorrect translations in the NWT. Perhaps it is time to start keeping track of misquotes in WT articles. Every time the discussion board members sees a checkable reference in a WT or Awake, it can be posted for others to verify.
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  8

  Bible Study WT June,1 2001

  by ISP in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is from the back cover of the wt.1june 2001. bible study.

  not to be read without the presence of a priest.

  this warning appears at the beginning of some bibles owned by catholics.

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  Skimmer

  I tracked down the Catholic Bible Institute and got the e-mail address of Kay Murdy. I sent her a reference to this board and also asked her to comment on the accuracy on context of the WT quote.