Posts by Skimmer

American Samoa
Anguilla
Azerbaijan
Bahamas
Chuuk
Denmark
Faeroe Islands
Falkland Islands
Greenland
Iceland
Ireland
Liechtenstein
Luxembourg
Mayotte
Montserrat
Nauru
Nevis
Niue
Norfolk Island
Rodrigues
Rota
St. Eustatius
St. Helena
St. Pierre & Miquelon
St. Vincent
Tinian
Tokelau
Tuvalu

Can you guess?

5

Questions on WTBTS abortion teachings

by Skimmer in

granted that the wtbts is, in general, anti-abortion.

interestingly, i can't find a reference to it in the _pay attention_ elders' manual, although tobacco and breast caressing are worthy of mention as being offensive.. i have encountered reports that the official wtbts abortion teaching includes the idea that an unborn child who dies as a result of abortion or miscarriage is considered not to be eligible for a resurrection in paradise earth, let alone a residence in heaven.. isn't this more than a little inconsistent with the wtbts "body equals soul" teaching?

if an unborn child is not considered human and is so denied a future, then why is a jw female punished (by being disfellowshipped, i assume) if she has an abortion?.

Skimmer

If the breath of life is needed to define a living soul, what about surgery patients who are on heart-lung apparatus and who don't breathe for hours? Are the dead souls? Suspended souls? When they resume breathing on their own, are they resurrected souls?

Does the WTBTS have a definite teaching on when life begins? If so, is it different as to when a life is deemed worthy of a resurrection?

Anyone with a WTBTS CD-ROM out there who could look up the answers?

29

some 2001 year figures reported on wol

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

not sure of the accuracy: http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000129

Skimmer

The site http://www.jwic.com/stat.htm is very informative and I hope that it is updated soon after all of the official statistics are released.

The cautionary note is that the WTBTS has in the past suffered serious, multi-year losses, mostly after a failed Big A prediction, yet still managed to rebound.

But this time things are different. The WTBTS is struggling with a multi-year decline in baptisms in spite of not having any obvious prediction failures. The last big re-adjustment was the 1995 redefinition of the generation issue and any JW who would have left because of that is already gone.

Also, the rise of the Internet and the resulting increase in the free flow of information is deadly to any cult's recruitment efforts. This is a trend that cannot be stopped. And even without the Internet, there is much greater communication among most people (better postal service, much less expensive long distance telephone service, and more frequent personal travel) and so most people are not as isolated as they were only a decade ago.

The WTBTS did see significant gains in the former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, but these regions have since lost their big growth rates. There is still some net growth in Central America, South America, and Africa and this will continue for another decade. But that is no ending of the WTBTS troubles, as these regions do not contribute enough cash as did the developed countries.

What can the WTBTS do to stop the decline?

1. Try a new prediction for the Big A. I doubt it. They have been burned every time in the past on this, and I think that even they are embarrassed to mention predictive chronology lest it bring to mind all of their failures. Ever since Fred Franz went to his reward in 1992, the WTBTS references to chronology have grown fewer and less definitely stated. The entire 1914 date has played itself out and must be an annoyance to the more youthful members of the WTBTS elite. It may be many years until it is officially dropped, but the "silent dropping" of it has already started and I doubt if that date will see any official references years before the 2014 publications appear (if they do appear).

2. Try more liberalization. In the past ten years, we have seen the WTBTS drop its official condemnation of college education, alternative service, voting, and a few blood issues. While some of these changes were done to appease various government agencies for better tax and subsidy terms, the others just might have been attempts to stem membership losses. But I doubt if any of the liberalization efforts were intended to draw in new converts directly. And I don't see how this could change in the future.

3. Dropping shunning practices. This could result in a lot of exJWs returning to the fold, at least temporarily. But it's not going to get many new recruits coming in the door. And the WTBTS is unlikely to give up one of it's two best retention tools, the other being the fear of an immanent Big A Real Soon Now.

4. Starting some real humanitarian and charity efforts including locally organized work. Something like this just might be effective in stemming the loss in developed countries. But it has the drawbacks of draining net cash flow to Brooklyn and of allowing more autonomy at the local and circuit level. The WTBTS elite is not going to permit either of these until it is truly desperate.

5. Try a media blitz. This could be effective in the short ot medium term. But no doubt the WTBTS elite are going to stay clear of this as it costs real money and would also open them up to criticism that they are just money grabbing televangists. Also, as long as they are getting a billion hours each year in free labor, why spend a penny on broadcasts?

6. Try a more ecumenical approach. This is a last ditch option for the WTBTS. They will eventually go for this, but not until all other approaches have failed. When it finally comes, we wil have had years of forewarning od doctrinal changes as they back out of their old "Satan's worldwide empire of false religion" mantra.

7. Try more vigorous performance monitoring of the district and circuit overseers. It is possible that more threats of punishment for non-performance may, at least for a while, motivate some DOs/COs and get others to retire. A CO could be told "Get the numbers up this quarter or you'll be cleaning toliets at Bethel.

20

THE MALE BRAIN

by Sirona in

Skimmer

The same illustration would also be suitable for some of the women I've known.

5

Questions on WTBTS abortion teachings

by Skimmer in

granted that the wtbts is, in general, anti-abortion.

interestingly, i can't find a reference to it in the _pay attention_ elders' manual, although tobacco and breast caressing are worthy of mention as being offensive.. i have encountered reports that the official wtbts abortion teaching includes the idea that an unborn child who dies as a result of abortion or miscarriage is considered not to be eligible for a resurrection in paradise earth, let alone a residence in heaven.. isn't this more than a little inconsistent with the wtbts "body equals soul" teaching?

if an unborn child is not considered human and is so denied a future, then why is a jw female punished (by being disfellowshipped, i assume) if she has an abortion?.

Skimmer

Granted that the WTBTS is, in general, anti-abortion. Interestingly, I can't find a reference to it in the _Pay Attention_ elders' manual, although tobacco and breast caressing are worthy of mention as being offensive.

I have encountered reports that the official WTBTS abortion teaching includes the idea that an unborn child who dies as a result of abortion or miscarriage is considered NOT to be eligible for a resurrection in Paradise Earth, let alone a residence in heaven.

Isn't this more than a little inconsistent with the WTBTS "body equals soul" teaching? If an unborn child is not considered human and is so denied a future, then why is a JW female punished (by being disfellowshipped, I assume) if she has an abortion?

Can anyone here relate any stories about women who had an abortion while in the WTBTS? Names or other identifying details are unimportant.

29

some 2001 year figures reported on wol

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

not sure of the accuracy: http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000129

Skimmer

Be assured that the WTBTS always has a canned response ready that "this is a good sign", no matter what happens.

By the way, it looks like the pioneer numbers are also down. There was roughly a 3.5 percent decrease among the full timers.

29

some 2001 year figures reported on wol

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

not sure of the accuracy: http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000129

Skimmer

One more thing: the baptism count was the worst performance since 1989. This is very bad news for the WTBTS.

29

some 2001 year figures reported on wol

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

not sure of the accuracy: http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000129

Skimmer

The 8.81 percent decline in baptisms is on track with my prediction of a peak in the WTBTS membership occurring in 2006. If the trends in the DA/DF, death, and baptisms remains the same, then we will see ever decreasing total annual growth rates for the years up to 2006.

My earlier prediction of an all-time peak of WTBTS member count in the 7,000,000 to 7,500,000 range now looks a bit high. It may be that they will top out at around 6,800,000.