Posts by Blotty

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Blotty

There is some "satire" in there yes (obviously some of that is deeply exaggerated and unrealistic), but the arguments in themselves (concept of the argument) I'm quite serious about.

"so atheists obviously have no burden of proof to ‘disprove Jesus’ existence’." - ones who say he didn't have a multitude of scholars to debate on this subject.. I personally believe it for many reasons. (Iv been alot in my atheism -> trinitarian -> "JW"(not formally one, but same beliefs, call that what you want), I have changed my opinion a lot is what I'm saying )

Jesus didn't have kids (as far as we are aware, most likely not - nothing is explicitly mentioned tho) but he did have siblings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothers_of_Jesus#:~:text=The%20brothers%20of%20Jesus%20or,mentioned%20in%20Mark%20and%20Matthew.), who likely did have kids (again not explicit but it wouldn't make sense for them, compared to Jesus). yes the existence argument is actually pathetic in itself. but then many points must be raised - The bible doesn't provide the answer to everything

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Blotty

Plenty of strawman arguments going on

- burden of proof lies on atheist's to disprove majority of scholars on Jesus never existing
the "never left any writings argument" is extremely weak
My great grandmother never left any writings (nothing for that matter) are you going to dispute she existed?
and writings don't really prove someone existed any how.. (know the purpose of the messiah before saying about what he should and should not of done.)
Different gospel writers place emphasis on different things - It is possible that there were 4 woman who discovered Jesus' tomb empty, however some only emphasizing 2 (still doesn't mean to say the other 2 didn't exist or were not present) John's account is the challenge, but depending on his writing time might have thought some points moot due to them possibly being so well know. Greek writers were well known not finish thoughts and omit details that were self explanatory.

- Trinity doesn't work due to Greek antecedents (Grammatical rules// see Wallace's paper)

Those who say Jesus did raise himself. not according to A.T Robertson

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Blotty

While I do not cite this video in itself as evidence, The reasoning is quite good & the sources are also worth looking over - There are other videos on YouTube similar in nature to this (not to hard to find) with similar reasoning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lctv_pyT62o&ab_channel=TheInfographicsShow

extra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw5kOck8MCw&ab_channel=HistoryValley

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Blotty

I question if either of have bothered reading that article let alone looking at scholarly studies on it... but anyway

16

My favorite Cooking Pot

by Wonderment in

although cooking pots are not directly "religious" subject, perhaps not many will deny that a happy belly can lead to wholesome religious thoughts and peaceful spiritual discussions.. that said, through the years i have tried most major brands of cooking pots - all the way from all-clad to cast-iron skilets - including some with the most extraordinary claims in between.. however, the one we have used the most in our kitchen is one brand from denmark, specifically, the 5 quart pot called "scanpan.

" it is now approaching 40 years of daily use, and it has held-up surprisingly well.

the handles are as tight as day one when we bought it.

Blotty

too be fair a Cooking pot has to do with food which has to do with the belly which according to the bible can be "a god"

50

Are the teachings of JW—consistent?

by Fisherman in

i would belief so but if you can point something out, it can be discussed.. i don’t mean what jw taught in the past that they later realized was not correct and amended.

—unless you think and can show something like that is relevant.. i’ve spoken to a lot of believers from different religions.

i don’t want to bash any religion here under this topic but their beliefs are inconsistent and their reasons are sophistry and made up and grounded on circular reasoning.

Blotty

"Consistant" - an interesting word.. What religion is "consistent"? trinitarians cant even agree on how to explain the doctrine in a lot of cases.. "consistency" right there..
What about changing views? because someone reads something that changes their mind on a teaching or fact, does that make them inconsistent? no because then we can apply this argument to every person who has changing views on a subject..
People who assume The Watchtower don't have a chance of getting anything right need to see a doctor.. its basically saying all other religions are right in every case (They are not) No religion has everything 100% correct, but I would say the watchtower has points on numerous cases. scholars themselves have proved this point.

1

Wallace's "The personality of The holy spirit"

by Blotty in

source: http://orcuttchristian.org/wallace_greek%20grammar%20and%20the%20personality%20of%20the%20holy%20spirit.pdfi assume this is a portion of one of his books considering the page numbers & all in all its quite good food-for-thought for both sides of the theological argument.

his honesty here is surprising considering he once cited countess' very flawed argument.

a very good article to read anyhow and unironically quite useful in teaching how greek antecedents work - something very important on occasion.not to "spoil" the article but here are some very "un- wallace" thoughts, considering his stance on the trinity:.

Blotty

Source: http://orcuttchristian.org/Wallace_Greek%20Grammar%20and%20the%20Personality%20of%20the%20Holy%20Spirit.pdf

I assume this is a portion of one of his books considering the page numbers & all in all its quite good food-for-thought for both sides of the theological argument. His honesty here is surprising considering he once cited Countess' very flawed argument. A very good article to read anyhow and unironically quite useful in teaching how Greek antecedents work - something very important on occasion.

not to "spoil" the article but here are some very "un- Wallace" thoughts, considering his stance on the trinity:

In John 16:8, the only explicit antecedent to e)kei=noj is o( para/klhtojin v. 7. The personal pronoun au)to/n in v. 7 also refers back to para/klhtoj. As Curt Steven Mayes (Pronominal Referents and the Personality of the Holy Spirit [Th.M. thesis, Dallas Theological Seminary, 1980], 33) notes on this passage, "The fact that John often uses e)kei=noj as the equivalent of a personal pronoun (= he or they) may be significant for the Spirit's personality. But the question is, how is the masculine form in this passage to be explained? Is it meant to teach theology or agree with para/klhtoj? Surely the latter is a grammatically sound conclusion." Mayes's observation leads to a further interesting point: in 1 John, as R. Brown and others have repeatedly noted, the author consistently uses the pronoun e)kei=noj, to refer to Jesus (as opposed to God the Father). Now there are significant shifts (albeit subtle ones) in the terminology between the Gospel of John and 1 John, but I wonder if the common thread here is the concept of the ascended Christ as Spirit. If this were the case (and I admit it's an if), the author would tend toward the masculine, not because of a view of the Spirit's personality, but because of a view that the Spirit was identified somehow with the ascended, exalted Christ (who would naturally be thought of as masculine).
(page 100 - Footnote: 10)

"The first two passages, John 14:26 and 15:26, can be handled together. In both of them, pneu=ma is appositional to a masculine noun, rather than the subject of the verb. The gender of e)kei=noj thus has nothing to do with the natural gender of pneu=ma. The antecedent of e)kei=noj, in each case, is para/klhtoj, not pneu=ma."
(page: 104 - Last paragraph)

"the masculine demonstrative pronoun, e)kei=noj, stands in relation to o( para/klhtoj, not to to_ pneu=ma. In 14:26, the noun clause—"the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name"—is in apposition to o( para/klhtoj. How do we know that to_ pneu=ma is the appositive rather than o( para/klhtoj? Because it follows o( para/klhtoj. (25)"
(page 107 - see also footnote 25 & 26)

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Blotty

Punk of nice (& Jeffro)

consider this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Christ_myth_theory

"The Jesus character, didn't leave any writings." - very weak argument as many bible characters didn't leave any writings..

"Then you have to prove God exists." - admittedly I have very few ways to do that... Bible doesn't really touch on the subject as in those days people were far more religious, even look 100 years ago..

that's all ill say on the subject :)

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Blotty

I have seen arguments surrounding Jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument The evidence for it remains very weak. (Bible quotes are from the NWT but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) This following version of it is a good example.

"The Bible indicates that all [persons] of The trinity was involved in Jesus’ resurrection. Galatians[1:1] says that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. 1 Peter 3:18 says that the Spirit raised Jesus from the dead (see also Romans, and note that Romans 8:11 clearly says that God will resurrect believers “through His Spirit”). And in John 2:19 Jesus predicts that He will raise Himself from the dead (see John 10:18). So, when we answer the question of who resurrected Jesus, we say 'God' did."

once again I'm going to clarify I may be wrong in some areas linguistically.

Word Pictures in the New Testament - A. T. Robertson : “Recall John 2:19 where Jesus said: ‘And in three days I will raise it up.’ He did not mean that he will raise himself from the dead independently of the Father as the active agent (Rom. 8:11).”

(https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/rwp/john-10.html - under verse 18)

The dead also are "conscience" of nothing at all (Ecclesiastes 9:5) - worth taking into account.

John 5:19, John 5:30 - also worth noting

Jesus' "dual nature" theory can be disputed by a verse in Revelation where he is a spirit (So has his "divine" nature) yet is talking about being dead.. (Rev 1:17) - Which "nature" is he using here? Human or divine?

some take 1 Peter 3:18 as meaning the Holy Spirit - however this is erroneous purely based on the next verse, "in which" (Biblehub meaning) is a referral back to the word "spirit" - Jesus “says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’” ... “You are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. You are from this world; I am not from this world.” (John 8:22, 23, NWT) - proving that flesh cannot enter heaven only spirit beings can. - which is where Jesus ascended. Jesus was made "spirit" or resurrected "in the spirit" (in spiritual form)

From my understanding there are 2 possible ways to understand Romans 8:11

1. God raised Jesus

2. The spirit raised Jesus

(I'm confusing myself trying to explain this myself)

Greek nouns must have the same number (,case?) and gender to which they refer back too.

"Spirit" is in the neuter gender therefore the later "ho" (The one , He who - NIV) cannot refer back to the Spirit but rather must refer back to God (in verse 3) and the earlier instance of God (verse 7, genitive) for the genitive "tou" (of him, NIV) in verse 11 none of which refer to the Spirit itself (both are masculine not neuter). as the "source" of the resurrection, We know this because of the preposition "dia" (similar, John 1:3 / Col 1:15)

The spirit is also said to come from the Father (John 15:26) Not just "From God" * (see Footnote) - This seems to be conveniently skipped over. (S)

John 10:18 says nothing about this subject... not sure why its in there. But it once again credits the resurrection to the Father (indirectly) The Father "gave" Jesus authority to receive his life back again.

The Father is the main one credited for Jesus' resurrection.

The following is a total of scriptures and the one credited for the resurrection:

Son: 1

Spirit: 1 (likely missed some)

Father: 16+ (about 6 explicitly say "The Father")

Acts 2:24; 3:15; Rom 4:24; 6:4; 8:11; 1Co 6:14; 2Co 4:14; Gal 1:1; Eph

1:17, 19-20; Col 2:12; 1Th 1:9,10; 1Pe 1:21.* (**)

(If anyone can give me a total list, that would be appreciated)

So from what I understand is The Father used his (holy) spirit to raise Jesus from the dead as a lifegiving spirit (1 Cor 15:45)

The bible is well known to add details "later", when it is assumed people understood without the completed thought. (Ellipsis)

another thing to keep in mind is Jesus' words at John 13:16, NWT

“. . .Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him. . .”

most bibles echo the same sort of thing.. and the Father was going to send the holy spirit (Which later is also declared to be spoken in comparisons (or illustrations, parables))

Footnotes:

https://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/11/ru-jesus-raised-himself.html

* What trinitarians (and I sometimes) miss a lot of the time is when "God" is stated the writer means "God The Father" Paul sometimes uses "God" but evidently means "God the Father"

(S) The holy spirit is never explicitly referred to as "ho theos"

11

Two Translators Who Restored God’s Name to the NT

by Wonderment in

one of the first prayers that many people learn is the lord’s prayer, which jesus taught his followers.

this prayer is found in what is commonly called the new testament.

the prayer begins: “our father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified [or hallowed].” (matthew 6:9) yet, god’s name, rendered in english as “jehovah” or sometimes “yahweh,” is rarely found in english translations of the new testament.

Blotty

Greg Stafford also has an interesting article on this subject in his 2nd and 3rd editions of JWD

Thanks tho Wonderment