Posts by Blotty

29

Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K

by Sea Breeze in

what were we thinking?

mat_10:32 whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will i confess also before my father which is in heaven.. mat_10:33 but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven.. mat_12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.. mat_16:25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.. mat_18:4 whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.. mar_10:15 verily i say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little child, he shall not enter therein.. luk 6:47,48 whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, i will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man .

which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock.

Blotty

Enoughisenough said: "My conclusion is if one accepts that all has sinned, then when Jesus says his blood is for the forgiveness of sin for all, then I take that to be literal as well."
Who said anything about a symbollic "all" - not me, you can take the "all" literally just not "absolutely" - "other" is implied in "all" so "all" might not mean everybody, there still may be exceptions, again Paul makes this evident.

"All has sinned" - did Jesus sin? did God? what about the majority of the angels? did inanimate objects?(this last one is hyperbole, but you get the point) there lies the flaw in that statement, How do you account for the other scriptures where "all" is used, when it doesn't actually mean "all"?

"The fig tree and all the trees" - is a "fig tree" now not a "tree" because it says "all trees"? you said "all" means everything (or one) so apparently that's how I should understand it - but that is clearly wrong.. and again there are other ways to be saved - I can think of 1 off the top of my head.

again:
“The words ‘world’ and ‘all’ are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that ‘all’ means all persons, taken individually.”
(Particular Redemption, A Sermon, No. 181, 28 Feb 1858.)

Punkofnice: There are many many scholars and historians (Modern & Ancient) who have proven Jesus existed, God is slightly harder as the people in the bible automatically assumed God existed - so no need to place explicit evidence upon the case. (too the writers and people of that time, too us its slightly different)

If the bible is a hoax, Why was new evidence of King David recently (admittedly articles vary on dates) found?
Why did Romans mention Jesus? (atleast 2, that I'm aware, pretty sure there is more - both non-believers)
Why is the bible such an accurate time keeper? (look into it if you haven't, I mean actually look into it)
How did the universe begin? Big Bang? (there are multiple explanations so I will not say "explosion" or anything particular to cover the basis) doubtful
- What caused the "Big bang"?
- Why is everything so "perfectly" made, everything makes sense and has a purpose

+ hundreds more questions

most questions non-believers can throw are answered in the bible.. It is also important to note the Bible was never written to answer all questions, nor does it explicitly explain certain things. This is evident from the lack of defining terms in the bible, its rare that the actual meaning is explained (or spelled out)

"Why does God allow suffering?" - proving a point and an important one
"Why does (bad thing i.e disease) exist" - Sin (one of the rare terms that is somewhat defined)

The evidence is there whether you accept it or not..

29

Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K

by Sea Breeze in

what were we thinking?

mat_10:32 whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will i confess also before my father which is in heaven.. mat_10:33 but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven.. mat_12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.. mat_16:25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.. mat_18:4 whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.. mar_10:15 verily i say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little child, he shall not enter therein.. luk 6:47,48 whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, i will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man .

which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock.

Blotty

For these other method I would suggest looking up every clause (& its context) that mentions salvation & be sure to take note of the use of "all" & "everyone" in some of them - the statements MUST harmonise and if they don't, the interpreter is in error (while it is not nessacary to understand Hebrew or Greek to read the bible, I would make a very strong argument for researching culture, time period and linguistical uses of certain words)

even in English, how often do we use "all" or "everyone" and it is absolute (literal)? I can think of very few reasons/ contexts where this is truly the case

again I am NOT going to argue, you asked for an example you got one, questions I'm more than happy to answer (with in reason) But you can also research this online (most of the time a simple google search, with first or second result) very easily in contrast with other subjects where its very hard not to get just one side of teh argument

29

Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K

by Sea Breeze in

what were we thinking?

mat_10:32 whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will i confess also before my father which is in heaven.. mat_10:33 but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven.. mat_12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.. mat_16:25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.. mat_18:4 whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.. mar_10:15 verily i say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little child, he shall not enter therein.. luk 6:47,48 whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, i will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man .

which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock.

Blotty

"Can you provide an examp[l]e?" (error corrected for clarity sake)

Just off the top of my head - there are many others provided by others on this website When dealing with similar clauses

The most "famous" one is done by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28

However other examples include

Colossians 1:20 - reconcile to himself "All things" - does this include Satan? no (thats self evident from else where, where the bible says he will be destroyed), does it include animals? not that I'm aware of

scholars comments:

Of particular signifigance to your topic is:

“The words ‘world’ and ‘all’ are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that ‘all’ means all persons, taken individually.”
(Particular Redemption, A Sermon, No. 181, 28 Feb 1858.)

Others not so related but still apply:

“ἄλλος [állos] is sometimes omitted where we would add ‘other.’”
(A Greek Grammar of the New Testament, Blass & Debrunner, 1961 wrote (p.160))

“ellipsis: “In the broad sense applies to any idea which is not fully expressed grammatically and

leaves it to the hearer or reader to supply the omission because it is self-evident.”
(A Greek Grammar of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, University of Chicago Press, 1961, section 479, p. 253. Trans. by R. W. Funk)

“ellipses”: “The omission of the notion ‘other, whatever’...is specifically Greek.”
(A Greek Grammar of the New Testament Blass, Debrunner, Funk 1961, p. 254)

"But the WT says that only 144K are justified (declared righteous). In WT theology, how does those who are not declaed righteous saved from wrath?
The WT has never addressed this question; which is the most important question a person can ask a JW."
answer: Im not going into this in detail as information on this subject in depth is available elsewhere online (& the bible makes it self evident, when you understand certain elements of how it exaggerates)

Who said you had to be declared righteous to be saved from his wrath? I can think of another method in which ones can be saved from Gods wrath..

3

An interesting Blog post

by Blotty in

this is quite an interesting blog post - somethings i find to be "ehh" and some with fundamentally flawed arguments.

but an interesting point of view and worth looking into (not sure if this person is a jw):https://jimspace3000.blogspot.com/2021/01/answers-to-10-questions-answers.html.

Blotty

Personally I wouldn't go as far as "falsehood" They are correct in quite a few regards.. Im just not pointing out what I think is right or wrong as I want to remain neutral on most subjects (or as neutral as I can)

3

An interesting Blog post

by Blotty in

this is quite an interesting blog post - somethings i find to be "ehh" and some with fundamentally flawed arguments.

but an interesting point of view and worth looking into (not sure if this person is a jw):https://jimspace3000.blogspot.com/2021/01/answers-to-10-questions-answers.html.

Blotty

This is quite an interesting blog post - somethings I find to be "ehh" and some with fundamentally flawed arguments. But an interesting point of view and worth looking into (not sure if this person is a JW):

https://jimspace3000.blogspot.com/2021/01/answers-to-10-questions-answers.html

29

Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K

by Sea Breeze in

what were we thinking?

mat_10:32 whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will i confess also before my father which is in heaven.. mat_10:33 but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven.. mat_12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.. mat_16:25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.. mat_18:4 whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.. mar_10:15 verily i say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little child, he shall not enter therein.. luk 6:47,48 whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, i will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man .

which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock.

Blotty

You forget to factor in the detail that alot of what's written in the bible is hyperbole & deeply exaggerated. Exceptions are implied in "all" or "everyone"

The WT position on the 144K is not so easily disproven (I speak from limited experience on the subject, but experience non the less)

I agree with alot of scholars (including Edgar Foster) on the occurrence in Rev likely being literal due to the parallel & other numbers in the same chapter let alone the rest of Revelation.

Just my input, I'm not going to argue, If your interested you will do the research yourself..

16

My favorite Cooking Pot

by Wonderment in

although cooking pots are not directly "religious" subject, perhaps not many will deny that a happy belly can lead to wholesome religious thoughts and peaceful spiritual discussions.. that said, through the years i have tried most major brands of cooking pots - all the way from all-clad to cast-iron skilets - including some with the most extraordinary claims in between.. however, the one we have used the most in our kitchen is one brand from denmark, specifically, the 5 quart pot called "scanpan.

" it is now approaching 40 years of daily use, and it has held-up surprisingly well.

the handles are as tight as day one when we bought it.

Blotty

Wonderment I would like to address an apology to you for my previous comment in this thread, I did not make my thought pattern clear in that comment and multiple bad things could be taken from that comment, So if any offence was taken I apologise that was not the intent or my desire.

I was looking back on a few convo's Iv had and saw this comment and thought it sounds quite bad.

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

Blotty

Just my opinion an 2 cents worth

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

Blotty

Slim, The watchtower gets a lot of hate, in my opinion is actually woefully unjustified - especially if it comes from other so called "Christians" (Who claim to abide by the bible) Have they made mistakes? yes Have other religions? yes
Just look at almost any other religion and do some digging, there's dirty laundry whether one admits it or not..

People openly acknowledge they want to see the Watchtower fail and just blindly jump on a hate bandwagon (for "Christians" this is worse as where in the bible does it say be nasty to "false religion" or jump on hate bandwagons? - I know of no such scripture )
So really your arguing a point that is never going to get through to some (ironic coming from me, Ik) Who just blindly want to hate and not acknowledge any good in an organisation that has actually done some insane things the Bible in 1000 languages (How many other places have done that?) for starters.. People are going to make surface level arguments to try and playdown or discredit them just because they don't like them for one reason or another

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Blotty

There is some "satire" in there yes (obviously some of that is deeply exaggerated and unrealistic), but the arguments in themselves (concept of the argument) I'm quite serious about.

"so atheists obviously have no burden of proof to ‘disprove Jesus’ existence’." - ones who say he didn't have a multitude of scholars to debate on this subject.. I personally believe it for many reasons. (Iv been alot in my atheism -> trinitarian -> "JW"(not formally one, but same beliefs, call that what you want), I have changed my opinion a lot is what I'm saying )

Jesus didn't have kids (as far as we are aware, most likely not - nothing is explicitly mentioned tho) but he did have siblings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothers_of_Jesus#:~:text=The%20brothers%20of%20Jesus%20or,mentioned%20in%20Mark%20and%20Matthew.), who likely did have kids (again not explicit but it wouldn't make sense for them, compared to Jesus). yes the existence argument is actually pathetic in itself. but then many points must be raised - The bible doesn't provide the answer to everything