It been very interesting reading all this NGO business.
I haven't had time to read all the info.
What I want to know is this why did the society decide to associate itself with the UN?
What does it get out of the relastionship?
Are they using the UN's DPI simply to get information to write about in their magazines, saving them the hassle of writing and researching their own material?
Or is it something deeper?
Posts by sleepy
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2why are the JW"S NGO"S?
by sleepy init been very interesting reading all this ngo business.. i haven't had time to read all the info.. what i want to know is this why did the society decide to associate itself with the un?.
what does it get out of the relastionship?.
are they using the un's dpi simply to get information to write about in their magazines, saving them the hassle of writing and researching their own material?.
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sleepy
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Is evolution a fact or theory?
by sleepy inis evolution a fact or a theory?.
i suppose it depends on what you mean.. evolution in the sense of change from one generation to the next seams to be fact.. is well observed that offspring from a given creature will differ from the parent in different ways and thus after many generation can come to be quite different.. also that the genes of a creature can be affected by radiation from the sun and be alter in a novel way producing new and unique features in its offspring ( as long as the mutation is in the sperm or the egg).. that we came about via changes in the genes that eventually created a very different creature than that existed many generations ago , is that a fact?.
this requires that not only that there are changes between generation but also that these changes could be directed by different environments to such a degree that only certain specialised features could survive and reproduce offspring whilst other creatures have died out and only remain in fossilised form.. what evidence is there that such environments can and have existed?
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sleepy
Ok I get the point.
What I mean by theory is a sound or probable idea unproven do to lack of evidence or not being true.
Prehaps I should say "Evolution fact or fallacy."
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questions for my elders
by sleepy inhere are some questions i have prepeared for my elders if and when they deside to visit me.. anymore you can suggest?.
questions?.
1. gentile times.. a. why do we believe in such a thing as the gentile times?
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sleepy
SammyJoUK
Go ahead be my guest.
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Is evolution a fact or theory?
by sleepy inis evolution a fact or a theory?.
i suppose it depends on what you mean.. evolution in the sense of change from one generation to the next seams to be fact.. is well observed that offspring from a given creature will differ from the parent in different ways and thus after many generation can come to be quite different.. also that the genes of a creature can be affected by radiation from the sun and be alter in a novel way producing new and unique features in its offspring ( as long as the mutation is in the sperm or the egg).. that we came about via changes in the genes that eventually created a very different creature than that existed many generations ago , is that a fact?.
this requires that not only that there are changes between generation but also that these changes could be directed by different environments to such a degree that only certain specialised features could survive and reproduce offspring whilst other creatures have died out and only remain in fossilised form.. what evidence is there that such environments can and have existed?
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sleepy
Just picked up "River out of Eden" and "The blind watchmaker" from the Library.
Although I've read portions out of books that deal with evolution I must admit I haven't read a hole book on the subject.
I hope I learn something intresting and different to what I already know. -
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questions for my elders
by sleepy inhere are some questions i have prepeared for my elders if and when they deside to visit me.. anymore you can suggest?.
questions?.
1. gentile times.. a. why do we believe in such a thing as the gentile times?
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sleepy
Here are some questions I have prepeared for my elders if and when they deside to visit me.
Anymore you can suggest?Questions?
1. GENTILE TIMES.
a. why do we believe in such a thing as the gentile times? this arises as it is not specifically mentioned in the bible as described by Jehovah’s witnesses.
b. why do we calculate that they start with the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 b.c.e.? historians place the event in 587 b.c.e. the 607 date is not mentioned in the bible either.
c. why is the duration calculated the way it is? It involves such thing as a prophetic year of 360 days times by 7 then changing a day for a year then saying these years relate to the modern western calendar of 365 1/4 days.2. PROPHECY.
a. why do we believe you can only understand certain prophecies after the event. if the prophecy can’t be understood properly until after it has happened what purpose does it serve. how can we trust the interpretation of the fulfilment of prophecies that are ambiguous.
b. Why do we believe prophecies have a hidden or double meaning? there is nothing in the bible that specifically states that some prophecies have double or triple fulfilments the fulfilment of which is usually claimed to be with jw’s in resent or near history.3. FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE.
a. Why do we believe this is a prophecy about and organisation god will use in the time of the end? why say that this has a meaning extra to an illustration that Jesus was giving about Christians being ready for his return.
b. Why believe the organisation we now know as Jehovah’s witnesses was selected as the above in 1919? the beliefs of the Russellites or bible students were very different from ours today. They generally thought the slave was Russell Michael the arch angel was the pope that Christ presence began in 1874 and last days in 1799 that the resurrection to heaven began in 1874 used the cross celebrated birthdays and Christmas thought the end of the world would come in 1925 and used pyramidology in time calculations amongst many more things.
c. If chosen by God why so many beliefs changed? if god is using this organisation why have they had to change so many teachings. These changes have lead to the disillusionment (dates) and even imprisonment (civil service) and death (vaccines and transplants) to many.4. TRUTH.
a. Are organisation or unity more important than truth? must individual witnesses accept and preach things they believe to be false for the sake of unity or loyalty to the organisation?
b. Is there such thing as present truth? on what basis does the society establish the truth of a matter ? how can something be accepted as defiantly true today but false tomorrow , whilst things that we can’t be sure of ( we need faith ), are still taught as definite truth?5. BLOOD.
a Why is whole blood transfusion not allowed yet nearly all the components that make up blood are ok? Why is it not taught that whole blood transfusions are very rare and that we are allowed nearly all of blood if it is broken into parts. Why is a distinction made between certain parts of blood , what is the basis.
b. Why are we not allowed to donate blood but are allowed blood fractions from donated blood? This seams hypocritical especially in view of the vast amount of blood that needs to be taken and stored in order to supply the small blood fractions we can use.
c. Why do we teach blood transfusions are like eating unbled meat? A blood transfusion differs from eating food as it is a transplant and nourishment can not be gained from it. If you were starving doctors would not give you a liver transplant or a blood transfusion. Alcohol and sugar could be injected into your veins as the body can draw nourishment from them from the blood stream. To benefit from blood it would have to go through your digestive system. When you have a transplant does not the organ contain blood?
The command to Noah says not to eat flesh with the blood in it as the soul was in the blood yet we believe the soul dies with your body .Was this a command not to eat live animals?
d. Is blood more sacred than life? When people have a blood transfusion they don’ kill the donor like an animal for eating , but the patient may die without the blood . Which is more important the blood or the life?6. HISTORY
a. Why is the organisation not more open about past history? For an organisation that prides itself on truth and honesty why does it not make it easier for people to know its full history with out bias or editing? can it not discuss mistakes made ( which number much more than many think ) and why they went wrong?
b. Does anyone really know the true history? due to the fact that no one is alive today who remembers the beginning of the org or its early history is it possible to know the motives of such men as Russell , Rutherford and others?7. APOSTASY
a. What happens to people who were disfellowshipped in the past for things we no longer view as false or wrong? Say you had an organ transplant in the past and were disfellowshipped would you now have that annulled?
b. Would the beliefs of Russell , Rutherford , Knorr or Franz make them what we know consider apostate?
How come they wrote things in the magazines that were wrong and were not removed when if a publisher promoted wrong beliefs he would be accused of apostasy?
c. Are you an apostate to God the bible or the organisation? If you disagree with a point the society believes but is not directly stated in the bible are you going against a bible command? In which way does believing that the proof leads to a different conclusion from the society make you an enemy of god?
d. Why are witnesses discouraged from considering criticism of societies beliefs? How can you establish the validity of a view point without hearing the other side of an argument? What happens when you come across new evidence you hadn’t considered before ? How would you feel about people not listening to your side of the story are they closed minded? Are only the society allowed to look at apostate books , if they don’t how do they know what is in there?8 144,00
a. How many bible students and Jehovah’s witnesses in total have claimed to be anointed? We would need to know this figure and add it to those we know of in the first century plus a estimate of the 1800 years in-between to see if they tally with 144,000.
b. Why are they considered to be instantly perfect in heaven when those resurrected to earth are not? What is different about the people that go to heaven that allows god to grant everlasting life immediately but those on earth have to endure another test? -
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Is evolution a fact or theory?
by sleepy inis evolution a fact or a theory?.
i suppose it depends on what you mean.. evolution in the sense of change from one generation to the next seams to be fact.. is well observed that offspring from a given creature will differ from the parent in different ways and thus after many generation can come to be quite different.. also that the genes of a creature can be affected by radiation from the sun and be alter in a novel way producing new and unique features in its offspring ( as long as the mutation is in the sperm or the egg).. that we came about via changes in the genes that eventually created a very different creature than that existed many generations ago , is that a fact?.
this requires that not only that there are changes between generation but also that these changes could be directed by different environments to such a degree that only certain specialised features could survive and reproduce offspring whilst other creatures have died out and only remain in fossilised form.. what evidence is there that such environments can and have existed?
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sleepy
I have read a lot more about evolution and its workings than I can express here.
Yet I still remain unconvinced in the idea that it could have ,in its current form of acceptance most have been responsible alone for what we see on earth today.
Evolutionists often accuse those who doubt of creating a “straw man” to attack when they try to refute neodarwinisum.
But I find that evolutionists sometimes are worse at this.
Often I find in their arguments against doubters they offer suggestions as to what one most surely believe if you don't find the whole concept of evolutionary theory acceptable.
You find ideas about what a God must be like or that you most believe the earth is young or you don't believe mutations can bring change etc.
Also I have heard it said that since someone has no better idea to offer why criticise current belief.
That reminds me of when witnesses say “where else shall we go?”But the hole issue is more complex than believing either one set of maxims or the other.
Change is a fact ,what change can accomplish in any given environment is not fully known.
I have often seen presented the idea that given enough time anything is possible. So you have the idea that if you sat down hundreds of chimps at typewriters and gave them enough time they would eventually come up with the complete works of Shakespeare.
This is not true.
Although this is a conceptual reality it is not necessarily a practical one in the sense that a lot more things are involved other than the chance aspect.
In order for random or chance events to have the ability to have infinite or very large variation ability certain mechanisms need to be in place.
The chimps for example would need paper, type, writers ,ink the desire to press the keys ,the ability to live a long time or be replaced, some method of selection would also be needed to select the correct written work and to judge when it is accomplished.
So although the concept that given enough time anything can happen is true , practical considerations can drastically curtail the effectiveness of chance.
Another example is of a box part filled with small balls.
If you vigorously shake the box will the balls over a great period of time be able to explore each and every part of the box?
Well no for the available amount of movement of a ball is curtailed by the movement of other balls. So although many positions can be taken in the box by each ball not all are available to each one. Where they could go would be dependant on their starting configuration and the positions of other balls in the box.
The point being that even though we can see that creatures have the ability to change over time the extent to which that can work is dependent on certain other practicalities.
To say that we know all the conditions ever present on earth is obviously wrong. So we cant say with certainty that the available conditions on a planet like earth are alone able to allow the kind of changes that must have taken place to turn non life in life and single cell into human.Chance and randomness in the non-quantum world are only concepts. Chance dose not make things happen but describes our inability to explain or predict why it happened.Things happen only when there is a mechanism to make it happen. Of course with evolution we are not asking for just anything to happen .
But to say it can happen does not only involve the concept that over vast periods of time almost anything can occur ,but involves knowing what things can or can’t happen due to certain mechanisms.
Two of which are natural selection and intelligence.If just in one case natural selection carnt explain how a feature arose then surely the current theory stands on shakey ground.
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Is evolution a fact or theory?
by sleepy inis evolution a fact or a theory?.
i suppose it depends on what you mean.. evolution in the sense of change from one generation to the next seams to be fact.. is well observed that offspring from a given creature will differ from the parent in different ways and thus after many generation can come to be quite different.. also that the genes of a creature can be affected by radiation from the sun and be alter in a novel way producing new and unique features in its offspring ( as long as the mutation is in the sperm or the egg).. that we came about via changes in the genes that eventually created a very different creature than that existed many generations ago , is that a fact?.
this requires that not only that there are changes between generation but also that these changes could be directed by different environments to such a degree that only certain specialised features could survive and reproduce offspring whilst other creatures have died out and only remain in fossilised form.. what evidence is there that such environments can and have existed?
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sleepy
SixofNine
I konw the amount of time involved, but at some point one type of creature is surviving and then it is not.
At some point there would have to be a direct conflict between the different tpyes of creatures over resources .
For instance if the earth gradualy dropped in tempreture over 1000's of years there comes a critical point when the condisions become too much for certain animals.
How long does that critcal point last. -
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Is evolution a fact or theory?
by sleepy inis evolution a fact or a theory?.
i suppose it depends on what you mean.. evolution in the sense of change from one generation to the next seams to be fact.. is well observed that offspring from a given creature will differ from the parent in different ways and thus after many generation can come to be quite different.. also that the genes of a creature can be affected by radiation from the sun and be alter in a novel way producing new and unique features in its offspring ( as long as the mutation is in the sperm or the egg).. that we came about via changes in the genes that eventually created a very different creature than that existed many generations ago , is that a fact?.
this requires that not only that there are changes between generation but also that these changes could be directed by different environments to such a degree that only certain specialised features could survive and reproduce offspring whilst other creatures have died out and only remain in fossilised form.. what evidence is there that such environments can and have existed?
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sleepy
Some extra thoughts on environments.
I am in a learning stage and will only benifits from the opinions from persons who are more more educated in this subject.Even if they make me look like an idiot.
Creatures that are not suited to their environment will not only die out but move out.Environments come in many different sizes from islands to continents. If a creature finds that conditions have changed he will move elsewhere .If he is in an isolated area say surrounded by hills then maybe he cant and will die out. Many different types of animal can exist in the same environment as in each environment there can be many different resources that can be used by various creatures .A creature may specialise in one but could cope in another so will not die out easily.
It is easy to imagine a major event such as a comet strike killing out many species and leaving some that could cope, but remember the survivors had coped in the previous environment too.
Evidently creatures are able to cope with some change.
There needs to be some competiton among creatures in order to create a battle for survival. Would say a giraffe having a long neck cause shorter versions to die out ?
Well all giraffes start out as babies and have shorter necks they are not made extinct by their parents better reach. Where is the battle for survival between baby giraffes and adult.
To explain all most each part of a creature we are asked to envisage a battle for survival yet this does not always exist in nature nor can it alone explain many of the specifications found in nature.
Unless someone can show how specific environments can cause certain creatures to die out without any option of moving or getting on along side competing creatures then this part of evolution seams to be very much theory. -
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Is evolution a fact or theory?
by sleepy inis evolution a fact or a theory?.
i suppose it depends on what you mean.. evolution in the sense of change from one generation to the next seams to be fact.. is well observed that offspring from a given creature will differ from the parent in different ways and thus after many generation can come to be quite different.. also that the genes of a creature can be affected by radiation from the sun and be alter in a novel way producing new and unique features in its offspring ( as long as the mutation is in the sperm or the egg).. that we came about via changes in the genes that eventually created a very different creature than that existed many generations ago , is that a fact?.
this requires that not only that there are changes between generation but also that these changes could be directed by different environments to such a degree that only certain specialised features could survive and reproduce offspring whilst other creatures have died out and only remain in fossilised form.. what evidence is there that such environments can and have existed?
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sleepy
Is evolution a fact or a theory?
I suppose it depends on what you mean.
Evolution in the sense of change from one generation to the next seams to be fact.
Is well observed that offspring from a given creature will differ from the parent in different ways and thus after many generation can come to be quite different.
Also that the genes of a creature can be affected by radiation from the sun and be alter in a novel way producing new and unique features in its offspring ( as long as the mutation is in the sperm or the egg).
That we came about via changes in the genes that eventually created a very different creature than that existed many generations ago , is that a fact?
This requires that not only that there are changes between generation but also that these changes could be directed by different environments to such a degree that only certain specialised features could survive and reproduce offspring whilst other creatures have died out and only remain in fossilised form.What evidence is there that such environments can and have existed?
Can we know that an environment existed that for example to allow mathematical ability to flourish in humans while all who couldn’t do sums died out?
Can we account for all parts of the human body or that of any other creature by means of various environments that would select and hold their various features at the expense of other features or animals.
Can we specify an environment for each part of a creature and why it would chose a particular novelty over another.
Or are we suggesting that this could have happened but we don’t know how, in which case it is a theory.Evolution is not just about the changes in animals over generations but also involves specifiic envionments having been in existance in order for it to work to the degree nessesary to acount for life today.
And remember even thought evolution can produce changes in offspring so can intelligence.
Humans can do that today .
So how do we know that some intelligence hasn’t acted in the past to direct what creatures live on this earth?
Isn’t saying that there were environments that caused the complexity in creatures that exist today just as unsubstantiated as the belief in a creator .
Yes evolution can be shown to work to some degree ,even to a high degree in some circumstances but can we know for sure that there were conditions available on this planet to produce the abundant variety and complexity of life on earth today?Also what is consciousness?
If we don't know what it is how can we say we know how it was made?
Is consciousness just the result of the mechanisms in our brain or does consciousness use the physical brain in order to exist?We know we receive information on vision through our eyes and this is processed in the brain ,we can check this by observing what happens to people who have damage to there eyes or brain and noting what happens to them.
If your eyes are damaged you cant receive vision .
If the part of the that interprets what is received by your eyes is damaged you cant interpret vision or see.
But could you still imagine vision in your head?
What is it that actually sees or hears or tastes?
Correct me if I’m wrong here, also on the above , but can we lose our qualia ( I think that’s how you spell it) that’s our sensations of experiences , sight ,sound etc in our head our imagination apart from dying ,is there an accident that can cause me to lose the ability to imagine or compose a song in my head?Whether that is true or not, consciousness is not well understood .It is the MAIN part of what identifies a human being if we don’t know what it is or how it works how can we say it evolved?
I feel this is the main reason people chose to belive in a creator not the complexity of life but consciouness. -
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REBUTTAL to Why Americans are hated
by Amazing in[edited] i appreciate saintsatan's post.
this rebuttal is not intended as any negative response to saintsatan.
i think he did a good thing to post an important point of view, a view that needs consideration to balance out the actioins of political leaders everywhere.
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sleepy
drahcir yarrum
"Oh, so if the U.S. government doesn't catch everyone here raising and sending money to terrorists in Northern Ireland, then our government is culpable? OK. If that's how you feel about it."The point is they didn't try.
What number of poeple have to die before it becomes war? 3500
have died in the British isles maybe 5000 in New york why does America feel it has to go to war , a war which could affect the rest of the world.
Many more die of starvation, poverty and crime why so little action taken?
It is worse to die of stavation or in a bomb attack?