sleepy

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Posts by sleepy

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  12

  Any one read David Rohl's books?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  these are two fascinating books on the historisy of the ealier bible accounts.. .

  if you doubt that the books of "moses" were based on real history these books are worth a read.. anyone else read them and what did you think?.

  i what to do more research on ancient bible history and how these stories relate to real history.. i find it amazing how many ancient accounts of early humans mentions gods coming to the earth and breeding with humans.. they usually contain a flood account too.. these stories come from all over the earth from south america , eygpt and asia as well as the middle east.. is there any truth in these stories .. any books you could recomend.

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  sleepy

  Moxy have you actually read David's books?

  "the evidence for this is suspicious-looking but i havent investigated enough to debunk it well."
  How do you know it should be debunked if you haven't read it?

  His goal seems to be not to show the bible is from god but merely to show that some of the events mentioned in the previously cosidered to be bunk are in fact based on real events.

  He shows that the reasons historians have rejected the exodus and other stories are based on assumptions made in the past in identifing the pharaoh Shishak mentioned in the bible, whom he equates with RamessesII in stead of the usual Shoshenk.

  He presents compelling evidence for this .

  This changes the time framwork in which ancient Isreal is usually placed into an earlier period where much evidence supports the reality of an Isreali conquest of the promised land.

  David Rohl is an archeologist with degrees in Eygytology and Ancient History and applies proper methology to his arguments,not some pusedoscientist.

  I will post more on his reaserch when I have time.
• 
  119

  Validity of 607 BCE date

  by stevieb1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anyone on here ever come across the tiniest shred of evidence supporting this date for the fall of jerusalem.

  i understand rolf furuli is about to but something out on this subject (see elihubooks.com), however even a table of contents has been a long time in coming from this site.

  if no evidence exists what can he possibly be writing about?

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  sleepy

  Trevor,
  Sorry to take you up on this but it's a common misunderstanding amongst witnesses. You said,

  "It is by counting from 607 B.C.E. as the beginning of the Gentile times that they arrive at 1914. They calculate the reference in Daniel 4:16 of “seven times” to be seven lots of 360, the number of days in a Jewish year. This comes to 2,520 years. Counting from 607 B.C.E. the date 1914 is arrived at."

  The number of days in a Jewish year has never been 360.
  In fact there is no such thing as a year with 360 days.
  Ancient people including the jews used lunar calanders. A lunar "year" comes to roughly 354 days so nations like Isreal inserted extra days or months into the year to bring it more in line with a true year of 3651/4 days.

  The 360 day "year " the society refers to is what the society claims is a prophetic year.
  The insight book says,
  "In prophecy the word "year"is often used in a special sense as the equivalent of 360 days(12 months of 30 days each)...It is also called a time..."

  So they claim that the word year in the bible sometimes doesnt mean a year at all but 360 days.

  Yet the prophecy in Daniel doesn't mantion years anyway it mentions 7 times.In revelation chapter 12 a conection is made between 1260 days and 3 times.So 7 times equals 2520 days.
  But nowere does it say that a time equals a year.

  The worst part though is when they say you now must change a day for a year.
  They now drop the 360 day year for the modern years of our AD/BC calander.Which in modern times are 3651/4 days.

  So we see that the society uses the word year in any way they like in order to get to ther prefered date.
  If anything in changing a day for a year that would fit the definition of a prophetic year.

  Remmember that this prophecy is supossed to have an ancient fulfillment in Babylons time what lenght were the 7 times back then if they mean 7 years?
  From the insight book,
  "The Babylonians ...held a lunar year but added a 13th month called Veadar during certain years .."
  So neither did they use a year of 360 days as their years were variable in lenght in order to fit in with a true year.

  So even getting from 607 BCE to 1914 Ad requires a certain amount of juggling of the facts.
• 
  12

  Any one read David Rohl's books?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  these are two fascinating books on the historisy of the ealier bible accounts.. .

  if you doubt that the books of "moses" were based on real history these books are worth a read.. anyone else read them and what did you think?.

  i what to do more research on ancient bible history and how these stories relate to real history.. i find it amazing how many ancient accounts of early humans mentions gods coming to the earth and breeding with humans.. they usually contain a flood account too.. these stories come from all over the earth from south america , eygpt and asia as well as the middle east.. is there any truth in these stories .. any books you could recomend.

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  sleepy

  By the way i don't assume the Bibles story is the correct one and neither does David Rohl
• 
  12

  Any one read David Rohl's books?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  these are two fascinating books on the historisy of the ealier bible accounts.. .

  if you doubt that the books of "moses" were based on real history these books are worth a read.. anyone else read them and what did you think?.

  i what to do more research on ancient bible history and how these stories relate to real history.. i find it amazing how many ancient accounts of early humans mentions gods coming to the earth and breeding with humans.. they usually contain a flood account too.. these stories come from all over the earth from south america , eygpt and asia as well as the middle east.. is there any truth in these stories .. any books you could recomend.

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• 

  sleepy

  By the way David Rohls books are :

  The test of time, and
  Legend
• 
  12

  Any one read David Rohl's books?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  these are two fascinating books on the historisy of the ealier bible accounts.. .

  if you doubt that the books of "moses" were based on real history these books are worth a read.. anyone else read them and what did you think?.

  i what to do more research on ancient bible history and how these stories relate to real history.. i find it amazing how many ancient accounts of early humans mentions gods coming to the earth and breeding with humans.. they usually contain a flood account too.. these stories come from all over the earth from south america , eygpt and asia as well as the middle east.. is there any truth in these stories .. any books you could recomend.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  sleepy

  These are two fascinating books on the historisy of the ealier bible accounts.
  
  If you doubt that the books of "Moses" were based on real history these books are worth a read.

  Anyone else read them and what did you think?

  I what to do more research on ancient bible history and how these stories relate to real history.

  I find it amazing how many ancient accounts of early humans mentions Gods coming to the earth and breeding with humans.
  They usually contain a flood account too.
  These stories come from all over the earth from south america , eygpt and asia as well as the middle east.
  Is there any truth in these stories .

  Any books you could recomend.
• 
  9

  Is God an alien?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i once gave a public talk and part of the information was dicussing did god have a begining.. i didn't find much concrete evidence in the bible for god not having a begining except scriptures that said he was from time indefinate.. which doesn't answer the question.. also when it says he made the heavens and the earth could this just mean the sky and earth ?.

  i don't know hebrew so could someone help me there?.

  anyway what about this scripture isaiah 43:10 .

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  sleepy

  I once gave a public talk and part of the information was dicussing did God have a begining.
  I didn't find much concrete evidence in the Bible for God not having a begining except scriptures that said he was from time indefinate.
  Which doesn't answer the question.

  Also when it says he made the heavens and the earth could this just mean the sky and earth ?
  I don't know Hebrew so could someone help me there?

  Anyway what about this scripture Isaiah 43:10
  "...Before me there was no God FORMED, and after me there continued to be none."

  Notice ".. God formed" .
  So does that mean God was formed?
  Notice also" before me" and "after me"
  So if there was a before and after does that mean the God of the bible had a begining.

  Could this God have been formed by something rather than someone?

  Does the bible alow for god being of this universe but a different form of life?

  Are God and the Angels just what we would now call aliens?
  Anyway I wonder if the stories in the bible are realated to reality and there realy is a being behind some of the stories of the Bible.
  
  Any comments?
• 
  174

  get a life -- 10 facts

  by joelbear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought it would be interesting for people to just post a few things about themselves so we can get to know each other just a bit.. try posting 10 facts about your life.. joel.

  1. i was born and raised in south georgia.. 2. my favorite subject in school was math.. 3. i was in the fulltime service (bethel and pioneer) for 4 years.. 4. my favorite color is blue.. 5. mitch and i have been together over 12 years.. 6. we live in a suburb of atlanta georgia.. 7. we love to eat out and have friends over for dinner and board games.. 8. the only sport i was ever any good at is tennis.. 9. my favorite tv show of all time is the simpsons.. 10. we are both naturists and wish we could lay on the beach naked every day.

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  sleepy

  1.I love music got around 800 records and CD's and used to play in a band .

  2.I'm 27 male and married.

  3.I'm still a MS but i'm taking bets on how long untill i'm outed

  4.My favoirte fiction book is Lord of the rings

  5.I read a lot of science books and love to learn new things.

  6.I was brought up in the truth all my imidiate family are witnesses and I'm selfemployed and work alone so If I'm outed I'm going to be on my tod.

  7. I'm from blighty

  8. I'm into architecture and design

  9. Wish I could afford a house in Bath or a nice part of London

  10.I wish I could spell
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  31

  How would you respond to this?

  by openminded in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i got this letter today from a friend of my dad who i have not seen in years.

  please respond to any or all of it as you see fit.

  it pretty much sums up witness mentality.

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  sleepy

  Hello openminded

  That letter is so spooky it sounds just like one I had a while back from a friend of mine.

  He goes on a lot about how the society is trying its best and how no one else is doing a work like them etc.

  I think he is very concerned about you and genuinly has your best interests at heart.

  He makes the same point that my friend tried to make about how apostates cliam the org is out to mislead its members.

  I tried to make the point that they may not directly lie about things but that they withhold information or do not present all the facts about a subject when aurguing its validity.Facts which could alter witnesses views on their validity.

  Why does the society never review counter aurguments or present objective dicussions in the magazines.
  They often make it sound like there is no counter aurgument to the points they raise when there are .It doesn't matter whether the oppossing points are valid or not but it matters that information isn't presented in a one sided manner.
  Most poeple don't have the inclination or the time to check for themselves whether what the society says is correct or not and recieve virtually all their information about the bible and the world in general through the magazines.

  Does your friend realise how the governing body makes decisions.
  Learning that it was on a voting basis shook my cofidence in the GB.
  Is not withholding information on how they decide on doctrine dishonest and misleading?

  How many people would stick to the GB's rulings if they knew that the vote was not unanimous and that some GB memmbers disagreed with it.
  And also that some very important issues had been challenged years ago by GB memmbers and had only recently been changed when it was obvious they were wrong.
  How many people would so faithfully follow magazine articles if they had the authors name stamped on them?

  Can your friend explain in which way exactly they are used by God?
  Does god direct the voting .If so why have decisions been reversed when certain GB memmbers have died.Why is it that when they make mistakes they are just human but when we reject their authority they are God's chosen organisation.

  Your friend may not realise that just producing good people isn't even considered by the society as enough proof of a religion being favoured by God.

  And saying if the "JW's aren't directed by God then who is ?" is not a valid aurgument as there may or may not be a God or a chosen religion etc
  The issues of whether JW's are right stand soley on the evidence.
• 
  119

  Validity of 607 BCE date

  by stevieb1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anyone on here ever come across the tiniest shred of evidence supporting this date for the fall of jerusalem.

  i understand rolf furuli is about to but something out on this subject (see elihubooks.com), however even a table of contents has been a long time in coming from this site.

  if no evidence exists what can he possibly be writing about?

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  sleepy

  Scholar

  You've been challenged on this board already.

  I'm willing to suspend disbelief of the 607 date if you can show how and why that date should take us to 1914.

  I look forward to your considered reply
• 
  119

  Validity of 607 BCE date

  by stevieb1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anyone on here ever come across the tiniest shred of evidence supporting this date for the fall of jerusalem.

  i understand rolf furuli is about to but something out on this subject (see elihubooks.com), however even a table of contents has been a long time in coming from this site.

  if no evidence exists what can he possibly be writing about?

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  2. 
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• 

  sleepy

  Scholar.

  Lets just imagne for aurguments sake that Jerusalem did fall in 607 BCE.

  Can you explain HOW you get from there to 1914 AD.

  Can you explian WHY you should get from there to 1914 AD.