sleepy

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Posts by sleepy

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  4

  I love you all !!!

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i do really,well maybe.. look we've all been there done that, no one else in the world can share that with us.. we may disagree at times but in a way we all understand each other.. love to you all and to future disagreement.

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  sleepy

  I do really,well maybe.
  Look we've all been there done that, no one else in the world can share that with us.
  We may disagree at times but in a way we all understand each other.
  Love to you all and to future disagreement.
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  22

  Ray Franz is still a slave

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ray franz is still a slave!

  (he seems a nice bloke though).

  after reading the other post about franz today i though i'd like to talk about something that i feel about franz which can be said about many ex-witnesses.. you are still slaves of men!.

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  sleepy

  Gumby

  "Yes that's right folks! Before you believe anyone...make sure they have a picture of God or a tape recording, or a credable witness to PROVE it!
  In other words....don't believe anything without proof. Never mind faith.....proof is what you need.

  Never fly in a plane unless you actually SEE the pilot! Don't trust some dipsy stewardes that tells you he is in the cockpit.....unless you SEE him. Don't be so gullable!"

  Lets see.You need to fix your car but don't know much about them.Three different people offer you and help.
  One is a mechanic who has fixed problems on your car for many years and has a good deal of knowledge about cars.
  Another claims to be a expert mechanic, the best in the world , but you have only just met him and know nothing about him and he cannot provide proof that he is one.
  Another is not a mechanic but claims that he has been sent my God , who told him in a dream how to fix cars , even though he's never done it before.

  Who do you choose?
  I hope its the mechanic you already know and have evidence that hes good.

  Maybe the other mechanic really is good, but what if he isn't, why take the risk.If he can come up with evidence then fair enough.
  But why doen't he have any?
  The third?Would you really get him to do it?
  Do you believe everyone who claims to get a message from God?

  In life we try to make the best decsisons by weighing the evidence.
  We see planes fly, most of us have been in a plane.It is reasonable to trust that there is a piolt flying the plane.
  Maybe its a trick this time.But life is too short to check every little thing out.
  With God ,we don't see direct evidence of Gods existance every day.
  Some argue that we as humans and animals are the evidence.
  But other say they have good reason to doubt it and can provide evidence for that.Why not listen?
  If we have faith in something without evidence to back it up we only have ourselves to blame if it all goes horribly wrong.
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  22

  Ray Franz is still a slave

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ray franz is still a slave!

  (he seems a nice bloke though).

  after reading the other post about franz today i though i'd like to talk about something that i feel about franz which can be said about many ex-witnesses.. you are still slaves of men!.

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  sleepy

  Hi Nemesis,
  "Yes, but it works both ways sleepy. I suppose that’s why Jesus did so many miracles, and raised the dead—otherwise who would believe in him with no tangible evidence?"

  I don't know anyone who has seen Jesus perform miracles.No "tangible evidence" remains today of these events if it ever was there in the first place.

  Why trust someone elses word when you know how wrong people can be when they don't back up what they belive with strong evidence.
  This is not the same as believing reasonable evidence when carefully studied.
  If someone believed in evolution just because other people do then they too have no real basis for their faith or trust in that concept.If after lokking at the evidence they reason that it is true they have made an informed decsision and can more confident of its validity.

  "It seems ironic that those who have left the concept of God and go for evolution then go forth and put all their faith in the same humans who are claimed to have made up this "

  It is not a matter of trusting humans but weighing up evidence that brings best results.

  If people have just gone being JW's to just trusting one other set of humans be it a religious group or scientists they have not learnt from their mistakes.Like I said yesturday you don't need COC etc to work out Jehovahs witnesses are wrong , you just need an open mind willing to look at the evidence.
  If you now make descisions based on a good look at the known facts then you have progressed.

  The reason Jehovahs witness are wrong is not that the GB are evil , but because they put there trust in a book writtrn thousands of years ago that has little evidence to back up its claims.Jehovahs witnesses beliefs stem from trying to live by this book and make it fit their lives.
  It doesn't work .All religions that have the same basis are similiarly flawed for the same reasons, the Bible is flawed.
  Any attempt to take it literaly is flawed.
  L
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  22

  Ray Franz is still a slave

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ray franz is still a slave!

  (he seems a nice bloke though).

  after reading the other post about franz today i though i'd like to talk about something that i feel about franz which can be said about many ex-witnesses.. you are still slaves of men!.

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  sleepy

  Hello Christfollower.

  "My presupposition is that God exists, and the Bible is his inspired word. All thinking stems from that."

  If your presuppostion is wrong , then all your thinking that stems from it, is also wrong.

  It would be good to spend time checking any presupposions we may have for validity.If theres room for doubt, be very careful.

  Remmeber witnesses presuppositon is that the GB is Gods servant on earth , all thinking stems from that.See how dangerous it can be?
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  22

  Ray Franz is still a slave

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ray franz is still a slave!

  (he seems a nice bloke though).

  after reading the other post about franz today i though i'd like to talk about something that i feel about franz which can be said about many ex-witnesses.. you are still slaves of men!.

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  sleepy

  Ray Franz is still a slave!(he seems a nice bloke though)

  After reading the other post about Franz today I though I'd like to talk about something that I feel about Franz which can be said about many ex-witnesses.
  You are still slaves of men!

  I respect other people choice to believe in the bible but hold on a mo.Franz took something like 50 years to work out that the governing body etc were just men, not chosen by God or anything special.
  He spent time with these people knew tham as friends.
  Yet he continues to put his trust in people, people he's never even met and were alive almost 2000 years ago.
  The words of Rutherford carnt be trusted but the words of Paul or Jesus can?
  What would a Crisis of conscience of the 1st centuary read like?
  Even with close accsess to the GB for many years Franz didn't realise it wasn't true, yet he's had no accsess to Jesus or Paul.

  Souldn't you learn from your mistakes, don't trust other peoples claims that they are chosen by God unless they can show you unrefutable evidence, otherwise you risk being taken for a ride again.

  Don't be a slave to people you havent met and don't know from adam, who you only read about in books than are not originals, a book that has divided the world for centuaries and continues to be the basis for much bloodshed and misery to this very day.
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  15

  Elect Your GB Member Here & Now.

  by Englishman in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is just for fun, but imagine if you will the following scenario.. the gb are dropping like flies and the remainder are desperate to find some replacements before the whole shebang is taken over by non-annointed ones.. news comes in of a middle-aged anointed bro who sounds as if he will fit the bill perfectly.

  no-one at brooklyn has met him yet, so they send for him to be interviewed with a view to him sitting on the gb if approved.. on the flight to new york the prospective gb newbie suffers a heart attack, and as he expires he drops his wallet under the seat, the wallet also contains a letter with the details of his forthcoming interview.. by an amazing coincidence, the person sat immediately behind the victim is an active poster from jw discussion.

  he spots the wallet, and upon reading its contents he decides that he will impersonate the defunct would-be gb member in the hope of eventually becoming part of the gb himself.

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  sleepy

  I vote YouKnow,
  With him in control even the most braindead witnesses will be off.
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  17

  No need to read COC etc to know its bull.

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you need to read coc or look on the interthingynet to know the "truth" is bull?.

  i think not, but it will make it easier.. having more facts at your fingertips will help you make up your mind about the society , but really from reading the publictions yourself and looking at the congregations at what goes on should tell you its wrong.. i think theres a problem that a lot of people don't meditate enought and don't give themselves a well rounded knowledge of the world in general.. its understandable given that so much time is taken up with other things, many people are too tired to read alot or think deeply.. yet if you don't you are missing out.. you learn so much by reading rather than whatching tv or playing computer games.. reading a wide variety of books and meditating on things can help exercise you mind , helping it sort dodgy ideas from more sound ones.. i think we should learn from our time as witnesses and try to read more, and meditate on things, become a more rounded person.. it would be a shame if we had to rely soley on other people to mold the way we lead our lives.

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  sleepy

  Sorry about the spelling, Damn that no editing policy.
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  17

  No need to read COC etc to know its bull.

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you need to read coc or look on the interthingynet to know the "truth" is bull?.

  i think not, but it will make it easier.. having more facts at your fingertips will help you make up your mind about the society , but really from reading the publictions yourself and looking at the congregations at what goes on should tell you its wrong.. i think theres a problem that a lot of people don't meditate enought and don't give themselves a well rounded knowledge of the world in general.. its understandable given that so much time is taken up with other things, many people are too tired to read alot or think deeply.. yet if you don't you are missing out.. you learn so much by reading rather than whatching tv or playing computer games.. reading a wide variety of books and meditating on things can help exercise you mind , helping it sort dodgy ideas from more sound ones.. i think we should learn from our time as witnesses and try to read more, and meditate on things, become a more rounded person.. it would be a shame if we had to rely soley on other people to mold the way we lead our lives.

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  sleepy

  Yes it helped me too.

  But its possible to work out its wrong without its help.
  Think about if it had never been written, would you be here now or on the ministry knocking doors?

  If we have to RELY on someone else telling us its wrong we need to check ourselves and ask "am I making an effort to work out what I believe?"We get help from over people and without over people we wouldn't learn much ourselves , but its the rlying on them thats not good.

  If I have to tell my parents to read Franz's book in order to leave the truth and they do and leave (not very likely) they havent learnt how to better themselves as people, the've just learnt from someone else they have been conned.They could learn some skills from the books he has written , but if they could work it out for themselves they will have learnt more and have greater skills.

  Having a well rounded education will help your to increase your reasoning skills and you will not have to rely on inside information inorder to see something is flawed.
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  17

  No need to read COC etc to know its bull.

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you need to read coc or look on the interthingynet to know the "truth" is bull?.

  i think not, but it will make it easier.. having more facts at your fingertips will help you make up your mind about the society , but really from reading the publictions yourself and looking at the congregations at what goes on should tell you its wrong.. i think theres a problem that a lot of people don't meditate enought and don't give themselves a well rounded knowledge of the world in general.. its understandable given that so much time is taken up with other things, many people are too tired to read alot or think deeply.. yet if you don't you are missing out.. you learn so much by reading rather than whatching tv or playing computer games.. reading a wide variety of books and meditating on things can help exercise you mind , helping it sort dodgy ideas from more sound ones.. i think we should learn from our time as witnesses and try to read more, and meditate on things, become a more rounded person.. it would be a shame if we had to rely soley on other people to mold the way we lead our lives.

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  sleepy

  Do you need to read COC or look on the interthingynet to know the "truth" is bull?

  I think not, but it will make it easier.
  Having more facts at your fingertips will help you make up your mind about the society , but really from reading the publictions yourself and looking at the congregations at what goes on should tell you its wrong.

  I think theres a problem that a lot of people don't meditate enought and don't give themselves a well rounded knowledge of the world in general.
  Its understandable given that so much time is taken up with other things, many people are too tired to read alot or think deeply.
  Yet if you don't you are missing out.
  You learn so much by reading rather than whatching TV or playing computer games.
  Reading a wide variety of books and meditating on things can help exercise you mind , helping it sort dodgy ideas from more sound ones.

  I think we should learn from our time as witnesses and try to read more, and meditate on things, become a more rounded person.
  It would be a shame if we had to rely soley on other people to mold the way we lead our lives.
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  21

  Apostates, brighter than the average witness?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  apostates, brighter than the average witness?.

  what do you reckon, are we brainer than people who remain witnesses?.

  it may seem proud or boastful , yet i feel there can be little other expliantion.. or course people come across information at different times and in different ways and this will effect what they do with it.. but ultimatly to work out what you have been taught from birth is wrong when you are presented with false and baised information claiming to be true ,propergannda has been forse fed into your brain since a baby, your whole world of family and friends indoctrinated in the same ideas, man ,you've got to have brains.. no when i think of all those people i've left behind in the "truth" i think of people who don't question who like to be told what to do.. people who may have done a little research to justify their faith, but only just enought.. lets consider ourselves a lucky group of people, who have had the ability to look at our lives and what we belive and reject it due to unrefutable evidence.. we have reached an other level of human conciousness.. others have reached it from different routes, but we've been able to cean the mists of human emotion and desire from our minds to see clearly the error of wishful thinking.. how many people who belong to other religions or follow other base less ideas have been able to do so?.

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  sleepy

  In giving in to unfounded fear you are letting your emotions dominate your logic.
  That is not a good move if you want to make wise decisions.