biblecheck

Joined

• started 8 topics
• posted 95 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by biblecheck

• 
  29

  Why does the Society allow women to speak in the congregations?

  by Badfish in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this sounds sexist, but you know what?

  the bible is sexist.. in order to establish that birthdays cannot be celebrated, the society references two obscure passages that mentions someone getting killed at a birthday celebration.

  however, nowhere in the scriptures does it say that birthdays are wrong.. but then, when the bible is very clear about something such as this:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  biblecheck

  Take it and judge how you want - your faith is yours, mine is mine.

  But one thing is for sure, sexism and bigotry is always wrong - I don't care where it's written.
• 
  29

  Why does the Society allow women to speak in the congregations?

  by Badfish in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this sounds sexist, but you know what?

  the bible is sexist.. in order to establish that birthdays cannot be celebrated, the society references two obscure passages that mentions someone getting killed at a birthday celebration.

  however, nowhere in the scriptures does it say that birthdays are wrong.. but then, when the bible is very clear about something such as this:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  biblecheck

  ----> BadfishI agree with you that women are equal and just as adequately qualified as men to teach, but the Apostle Paul was using the Bible to back up his statements...."

  So you agree that "women are equal and just as adequately qualified as men to teach", but not qualified to teach the Bible. So let's look at that...

  The Bible states that women must have fewer privileges and do not to have the authority of a man - why?

  It says Paul based his decision on the order of creation (Adam first), and women are carrying the guilt of Eve's sin... because of this, they are not qualified to te ach, remain silent etc.

  1 Timothy verses 13-15 "Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and came to be in transgression."

  So because of Eve's sin women should remain slient and sbumissive in matters of the church and teaching.

  What a load of utter mindless nonsense. To me saying women cannot teach because Eve was decieved, is no less ignorant and idiotic than believing that "blacks today are carrying the burden of Cain's sin"

  One thing I have learned since exiting The Watchtower - just because it's written in a book and self-claims to be inspired of God does not prove it's inspired.

  As mentioned,1 Tim and Corinthians tell women to SHUT THEIR MOUTH and do it in FULL SUBMISSIVENESS - while it's written in the Bible in a more congenial way it doesn't lessen what it's saying.

  This conversation about women having their place and being submissive would be laughable if it wasn't actually believed by the ignorant masses in Christendom! This is so wrong on every level.

  Nothing will convince me that the passages pertaining to women in 1 Tim 2 are inspired of a loving God. These are interpretations of ignorant men who have been influenced by the traditions of fools. These portions of scripture are trying to convince us that women are somehow lower than men and God also agrees with this.

  I hope is one day that all woman on this plant will never have to endure or submit to this kind of sexist stupidity.
• 
  31

  Questions/Points That Went Unanswered

  by Still Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like to use this thread as a means of organizing all unanswered questions/points made on threads i started since obviously i could not answer something when i was banned..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  biblecheck

  ---> Elephant ...glad I could clear it up for you...biblecheck...

  hmmm...I am not sure what you thought you had cleared up, I think we are all on the same page on this subject, unless I have missed something, or you misread something.

  Just to clarify I didn't leave the Watchtower because of reading "apostate material" or talking to "apostates". I came to my own conclusion through doing my own research. For me, at the time - communication with "apostates" was not an option. I started reading Crisis of Conscience, Captives of a Concept about 2 years after leaving The Watchtower, and communication on exJW forums started about 7 yrs after.
• 
  29

  Why does the Society allow women to speak in the congregations?

  by Badfish in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this sounds sexist, but you know what?

  the bible is sexist.. in order to establish that birthdays cannot be celebrated, the society references two obscure passages that mentions someone getting killed at a birthday celebration.

  however, nowhere in the scriptures does it say that birthdays are wrong.. but then, when the bible is very clear about something such as this:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  biblecheck

  "...for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in a congregation. " (1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 NWT)

  My opinion on passages of scripture referring to "the woman's place in the congregation" changed after studying Roman history. For me it's pretty clear now that the "Christian principles" for women given by the apostles in the 1st Century were man-made rules, influenced by the culture of the time, rather than inspired by God.

  Women having to be subservient in this way, was just how the world was in general then, and sad to say, for a long time after.

  In the 1st Century, non-Christian women who were Roman citizens and independently wealthy had fewer public and social privileges than men - women of the highest social status in Rome couldn't even vote. All formal public positions of office were available only to men.

  Girls were groomed to be good mothers, housekeepers and seamstresses rather than for positions of influence, such as scholars, officials, leaders, teachers and politicians - women were never considered for these roles.

  Few famlies spent money on their daughter's education. A famous 1st C scholar Quintellian tried to change this, but as much as he was respected, he was too forward thinking for the time and had comparatively small influence in the improvement of female education.

  The problem is all Christians cling to these antiquated and drachonian ways of thinking - believing it comes from God. This source of these sexist beliefs issues from insecure men, not God.

  The reality is women are equal and just as adequately qualified to teach in any field as men. Any other line of thought in my opinion is based on fear and the attempt to control another sex.

  Thank God the world is changing for the better in this way.
• 
  31

  Questions/Points That Went Unanswered

  by Still Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like to use this thread as a means of organizing all unanswered questions/points made on threads i started since obviously i could not answer something when i was banned..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  biblecheck

  ---> Elephant the gb warns against apostates due to their ability to convince someone to leave the org...

  Absolutely agreed - it's really interesting, because other cults such as the Church of the LDS, deploy a similar tactic. I was for a time really fascinated from a purely intellectual view point of the Mormons, because of the similarities between them and JWs. Their Ensign mag is identical to the Awake! in many ways. The Mormons also believe in active shunning "disaffected ones" and view any as apostate who questions the Church.

  This experience blogged by a young Mormon on how communication with "apostates" has made him a realize how little he knew about his own church and beliefs, it's really interesting as it shows the power of "outside" and online influence.

  He writes (quote) ... though having been sharply advised against searching out anti-Mormon material, that’s where I first went. With my returned-missionary zeal, I was going to go out and prove every single one of the points wrong. I knew that I could research and find out the blatant lies that people were telling and really do the church a good service..... As my desire to know everything about Mormonism increased, so did the necessity of interaction with people who were disaffected, at one stage or another along the disaffection journey. I started out immediately dismissing all of them, to mocking them, to ignoring them. “They are just twisting the truth,” I would tell myself. “They leave the church, but can’t leave it alone, and it’s all because it’s TRUE!” I obviously knew everything, and in my arrogance, thought to tell those that had left that they should abandon everything that they had grown up with, everything that they had circled their lives around, and everything that was the focal point of many of their families as well....I was so foolish....

  Highly recommended reading, it's well written and from the heart, a lot you here would really appreciate where he is coming from...
• 
  31

  Questions/Points That Went Unanswered

  by Still Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like to use this thread as a means of organizing all unanswered questions/points made on threads i started since obviously i could not answer something when i was banned..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  biblecheck

  ---> Christ Alone Yeah, but can't we be the bigger person? Can't we show ourselves to be respectable after coming out of the Watchtower?

  I must say, when I first contacted "apostates" I lucked onto some very helpful people. It didn't take long to realize the reputation of these people had been completely demonized by the Governing Body. I was terrified of apostates based on....nothing! This helped speed up my exiting. So showing love to them can't hurt - and maybe help JWs who are having doubts, but still feel loyal to the Watchtower. Because lets face it - most of us have gone through that phase.
• 
  34

  Did you ever shun people when you were a dub? How did it feel?

  by oldlightnewshite in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  okay, i don't know lots of people that were df'd, but of all the times i've encountered df people when i was a dub, they actually blanked me!

  it was always something that i had fixed in my mind that the jws had dead wrong, even when i was an uber dub.

  i remember several times when i used to arrive late at meetings, and i'd make a point of getting eye contact with the poor dub at the back sitting on the naughty step.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  biblecheck

  As the mindless institutionalised sheep that I was, I completely agreed with the shunning and supported it whole heartedly. To me it was scripturally correct - that's why, even though I don't agree with it now, it doesn't upset me because I get why JW's do it. Also I hear from my family from time to time so I am not completely cut off. I never hear from friends though.

  What really upset me was when a person was D'd, almost everyone in the congregation found out what the person had done - the behind scenes gossip was completely out of control, and nothing was ever done about it. This meant the person had to face the humilation of sitting up the back, while everyone knew their dirty laundry. This is just so wrong - I must admit I found that really hard to observe.

  The other thing I despised was when someone was re-instated - many in the congregation would be distant with the person "until they proved themselves". I saw this happen a lot in Australia - where the newly re-instated person wouldn't get invited to BBQs or other social events. So much for openly forgiving one another and showing agape' love - what a joke! It was like the disfellowshipping wasn't good enough. But I was always like "Hang on guys, God has accepted them back - so shouldn't we?"

  This is why cliques are especially a problem within the JW congregations - the rank and file, the disfellowshipping and marking all promote spiritual elitism .
• 
  31

  Questions/Points That Went Unanswered

  by Still Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like to use this thread as a means of organizing all unanswered questions/points made on threads i started since obviously i could not answer something when i was banned..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  biblecheck

  It always humours me when Jehovah's Witness go online to engage "apostates" in conversation - because in doing so they're directly disobeying the very organization they're defending.
• 
  14

  Would a JC turned violent get any publicity or covered up?

  by Lied2NoMore in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  lets say you meet with a jc and in the midst of it you snap because you feel intimidated or bullied and start swinging chairs at the heads and limbs of elders and actually break bones or send one into a coma or worse accidentally kill one of them.

  you think they would press charges?

  think they would be advised by legal to keep it quiet to avoid negative publicity?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  biblecheck

  There was a PO in a congregation I was serving in - his initials are GB, he was nicknamed The Guv by a pioneer who had a great sense of humour and was quite a "rebellious" personality (dont know if he is still a JW, because he used to question everything, but was super zealous in the FS).

  Anyway, The Guv was always on witch hunts about matters that were complete BS, and was ruthless in JCs. A member of the congregation, whose backgournd and situation I was very familar with, had committed immorailty, the situation was totally understandable and as I knew their circumstances (and what they had done), I was amazed at how quickly they decided to disfellowshipped them. Apparently he ripped that person to shreds in the JC. Then after the announcement was made, the following week the D'd person was bravely sitting up the back of the hall totally white and very distressed. The Guv got up and gave a "special needs" talk about how "the congregation had disfellowshipped someone recently, who had a history of immorailty..." he went on like this for 10 minutes. Opening up the case in this way from the platform is so completely out of line. But The Guv was never removed, and he wasn't counselled from what I can gather. What freaked me out, was after that meeting - no one ever saw that disfellowshipped person again - ever!

  Here's the interesting part...

  ASIC, a governing body for corporations in Australia, removed The Guv from operating as a company director for 2 years for illegal activity. Now in Australia you can be thrown into prison and still operate as a company director - I dont know the full story about what he did but it would have to be fairly serious. According to ASIC's records he " failed to ensure (his companies) maintained proper books and records and that he allowed Techontap International Limited to trade while it was insolvent. " No doubt his books and records conveniently went missing for "tax purposes", and trading an insolvent company is highly illegal in Australia. Here is just one of his public records.

  I had heard he was still operating as an elder after all this happened.
• 
  19

  MITT ROMNEY'S TAX PLAN EXPLAINED HERE!!!! :D

  by shamus100 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.romneytaxplan.com.

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  biblecheck

  Romney in 1956 as a moron missionary