i've mentioned before how i've wondered how tony morris must have felt when he was sacked.
yes, i know he's a rehensible human being who got served a healthy dose of karma, or, if you like, divine judgement.
to go from having all there is to have within the world he lived in, to where he is now; that's a long fall.
If his exit from the GB had anything to do with the recent changes in doctrine and policy, it well may be that he chose to step away rather than start a messy fight. His comfy arrangements might be less about keeping him quiet and more about being grateful that he chose not to create a PR headache for the rest of them.
But, as others are saying, until we find out what actually happened, it's just more guesswork. I'm impressed that they've kept it under wraps this long.
just thinking about how the wt has evolved over the century of its existence.
before the gb tricked knorr into making them the ones responsible for everything, the president at the time was very much the face of the society.
after franz, it all became a bit nebulous as to who was in charge.. is the current situation more advantageous to the wt or less?.
They dodged a bullet by limiting Franz's power in the 1970s, especially after Knorr passed away. Franz strikes me as a guy who would have wanted to rebuild the organization the way Rutherford did. But radical changes would not have been good for the rank and file, especially right after the 1975 fiasco. Franz would have driven the org right off a cliff.
The issue today is the lack of charisma among the GB members. Too many old guys who are used to preaching to a captive and obedient choir, and have never thought about how they come across to potential recruits. And with a constant presence via videos and social media, the mystique is gone. When you look and sound like a clown or a cartoon, it's tough for people to take you seriously.
even elders can be part of the new jw lite brigade these days.
they don’t need to go on door to door anymore and there is no requirement for anything really.. taking meeting parts is all dead easy you could turn up on the day with zero preparation because it’s all in the meeting workbook.. quarterly elders meetings are just old men having a good old natter just like old men do down the pub.. congregations could be likened to pubs or bars these days just without the drinks, those come at other times.. no need for territory maps, these almost went away with covid letter writing now they are extremely slow getting finished as those who still go door to door only do ten mins.. you could even voice your questions these days about things the gb say and then just say “we can’t be dogmatic we just don’t know”.
i predict they will say this about 1914 soon..
ElderBerry: Is it a judicial matter if a baptised publisher openly says they sometimes read apostate websites?
I don't know if it would automatically be handled that way. But when I was in, that would have been a red flag for everyone else. At the very least, such a person would get a 'friendly' talking to, mostly in order to find out why they would do something so 'dangerous' and to gauge if they were a potential problem for the congregation.
Does the organization view such behavior differently now? Apostates were always the easy villain for warning the rank and file not to listen to anything that wasn't from the GB.
inspection year: 1918 result: failed inspection.
inspection year: 1918 result: passed inspection.
inspection year: 1918 result: passed inspection.
According to the GB, Jesus is the ultimate flip-flopper.
what if the truly unthinkable happened and the tower went down?
perhaps the irs swooped in and claimed fraud and padlocked the headquarters and kingdom hall doors?
or the gb took the money and ran to a nice non-extradition country to live out their years?
ExB: It’s absolutely unfathomable that the Borg have lasted this long.
They survived 1925, which is when Rutherford got a prediction (that Biblical characters would be resurrected and become princes on Earth) utterly and completely wrong. This was the end of a string of predicted dates (1914, 1915, 1918, 1920, 1925) and it seems like the followers had heard enough. They may have lost as much as 3/4s of the membership.
When you think about religions like Mormonism and Scientology, you have very recent creations with some very wild ideas and beliefs along with unreasonably strict control of people's lives. And not only did they survive, they are thriving. Human minds are far too easy to manipulate this way, alas. There are a lot of religious groups that really have no business existing, yet they continue to grow and prosper.
it feels like the change in reporting of hours becomes a fundamentally bigger deal every day.
the weight and importance placed on quantity was enormous, and now it's just gone.
even tho most witnesses really didn't keep "accurate" records so to speak hehehe.... this could very well be a precursor to even bigger doctrinal changes, like 1914. damn, would would happen then?.
The fact that they have learned to use so many weasel words (about, evidently, perhaps, etc) --and that they continue to remind us that they are imperfect and fallible-- undermines their credibility significantly. They do this because they want to have a ready answer anytime someone points out all the occasions when they got something wrong.
The problem is, if you are promoting yourself as the direct line to god and god's only channel for communicating his wishes to the world, you cannot get anything wrong. You might be imperfect and fallible men, but you claim to receive direct guidance from a perfect and infallible god. Is Jehovah giving you the wrong information time and time again? Or are you unable to properly receive his message and are misleading the flock with your mistakes?
If god is perfect and reliable and you claim that he speaks through you, you cannot get things wrong. So either god is constantly misleading the flock, or you are not god's mouthpiece. I don't really see an alternative.
growing up as a jw in the 1960s and 1970s, a common refrain from the yearbook, local elders and circuit overseers was how jws were protected at meetings, conventions, and in the field service by "the angels".
experiences of "divine intervention" during service, ww2, in communist lands, and conventions were common.
the internet and google are regularly debunking this myth in the 21st century.
They always played it both ways. If there was a tragic loss of life, they pointed out that it showed the lengths that Satan would go to harm Jehovah's people, and thus demonstrated that they were indeed the truth. If deaths were avoided, it was a miracle and a clear sign of Jehovah's protective hand being extended to save his own, demonstrating that they were the truth.
uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
LMsA: No video for over a month, only that livestream two weeks ago.
I heartily encourage this new schedule and would only caution him not to wear himself out by doing too much in the coming year. A growing boy professional activist needs his rest, after all.
I am assuming the word "That" under the Attachments column is a mistranslation of the word "Yes." Which means documents were filed. Hmmm...
uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
By the way, there are now TWO 118-page threads talking about Lloyd's use of "green screen."
If you know what I mean...
it feels like the change in reporting of hours becomes a fundamentally bigger deal every day.
the weight and importance placed on quantity was enormous, and now it's just gone.
even tho most witnesses really didn't keep "accurate" records so to speak hehehe.... this could very well be a precursor to even bigger doctrinal changes, like 1914. damn, would would happen then?.
...although, now that I think about it, the overlapping generations thing might be the bigger problem for them, since it was an attempt to salvage 1914 after almost 100 years had passed. I'm sure they'd love for that stupid explanation to have never happened, but it did. And you'd probably have to replace all of the old guard before you could work on dismantling it.
So yeah, they're probably stuck with 1914 for at least several more years, if not longer.
