the watchtower's many legal problems and the jws' use of carts in their preaching work, reminded me of a scene and dialog from the film patton.. in a scene where patton is viewing a battle site the morning after, he says to an aide about the nazis: “you know how i know that they're finished out there?
in my dreams i saw the carts.
they kept buzzing around in my head and i couldn't figure out why.
If I was in, I would be thinking of all of the ways that I could witness to people that did not involve writing letters, knocking on doors, or standing in front of a cart. It really only leaves informal witnessing.
On the one hand, informal witnessing can be much more effective than the tedious door-to-door or magazine-cart options. On the other hand, how long will it be before everyone avoids you because you "turn every conversation into a Bible lesson"?
as it’s nearly the new year my prediction over the next decade or so will see the sense of urgency dwindle.
then some huge huge changes.
for example by 2034 in a decades time, they will have address the 1914 issue and will come out and say we can’t be dogmatic.
We've mentioned the 1914 problem in a different topic. I think it will continue to be a problem because they decided to double-down on the 'generations' teaching with that silly overlapping generations explanation. They could have reported on new light that taught them that the generations explanation from Jesus did not have a present-day fulfillment.
It would have been simple and easy to understand, and then they could gauge the reaction of the rank and file and see if they needed to receive any more new light after that. The overlapping generations teaching means that, as more and more years pass, they have to keep wrestling with it. It would have been one thing to say hey, we had the dual-prophetic fulfillment wrong. It's much harder to have to explain why you then came up with that awful explanation.
Between that and the easing of obligations for physical attendance and door-to-door work, I can see them going either way in terms of how many people join or stay. But I have no idea if they will be able to keep enough money coming in to support operations at Ramapo.
uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
DerekMoors: You buy it, open the box and inside is a note. "Hi folks, sorry for not giving you the item you paid money for
Now that made me laugh out loud. So perfect.
uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
KIMSILVIO: Don’t you know Derek, everything’s my fault
Don't be modest, Kim. Your hate mob forced Evans off Twitter and got his company closed down. That's all you! Rumor has it that you also dyed his hair a greasy yellow shade when he wasn't paying attention and kicked him out of his parents-in-law's house and sold his car whilst his focus was elsewhere!
Goodness, how many other things are you responsible for? You... you didn't -gasp!- tell him to take up a music and comedy career, did you? Because that's just too much!
What else have you been up to, in your quest to destroy Evans's life???
the difference is now blatantly obvious, older ones who went against direction of the gb and planned for retirement have relatively more comfortable lives.. those who trusted and followed gb direction never got further education or training, pioneered or spent most of their lives knocking on doors for free, making just enough to get by in a part time job.. if you followed direction from the gb then you thought the end was just around the corner so no need to plan for retirement.. now these ones have indeed got old which they were given the impression they never would.
they are a burden on others.
the state has to pay for them in their old age.
"This generation will see its fulfillment."
I assume that the collected version was updated to read:
"This [overlapping] generation will see its fulfillment."
here is the org's problem with zoom, attending this way does not fit with their "scriptural definition" of a christian gathering.
at least not anymore, one thing my pimi wife is fine with is attending on zoom occasionally, even 2-3 times a month or so.. if some of you recall, during covid there were break out rooms setup for people to stay on and associate.
many would also stay in the main meeting and talk over each other trying to say hello, etc.
I would have loved to have the option for video conference meetings when I lived in the projects and we had to walk six or seven blocks to a midweek meeting in inclement weather and after the sun went down.
Granted, that doesn't solve the issue of the lack of comraderie. But it was cold and wet and scary! I would not have felt inconvenienced at having to get dressed up for a Zoom meeting.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-01-01/bay-area/17466332_1_east-bay-bay-area-first-time-camping.
biblical scholar's date for rapture: may 21, 2011theologyjanuary 01, 2010|by justin berton, chronicle staff writerformer civil engineer harold camping of oakland, who runs family radio, has studied the bible for almost 70 years.credit: lance iversen / the chronicleharold camping lets out a hearty chuckle when he considers the people who believe the world will end in 2012.. "that date has not one stitch of biblical authority," camping says from the oakland office where he runs family radio, an evangelical station that reaches listeners around the world.
"it's like a fairy tale.".
Perhaps the most depressing thing about Camping's misadventures is to realize just how easy it was for him to recover from a false prediction that was easily demonstrated.
He predicted the end in 1994. When it didn't happen, he simply shrugged his shoulders and said 'I got it wrong, but I'll get it right next time.' And people believed him!! In the interview from the first post in this topic, he is smugly mocking the prediction of 2012! As if he had not already gotten one prediction utterly wrong!
Here is how he came up with the 2011 date (from Scientific American):
The date of the crucifixion is itself somewhat uncertain, but Camping takes it to be April 1 in 33 AD. Come May 21, 2011, Camping says, 722,500 days will have elapsed since that occurrence. And 722,500 is (5 x 10 x 17) x (5 x 10 x 17). Those numbers are important, according to Camping, because 5 symbolizes atonement, 10 represents completeness, and 17 is for heaven.
This is the guy who was mocking everyone else for getting end-of-world dates wrong!!
(Edit to add a link to the above quote: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/judgment-day-math-the-numbers-behind-harold-campings-may-21-claim/)
the difference is now blatantly obvious, older ones who went against direction of the gb and planned for retirement have relatively more comfortable lives.. those who trusted and followed gb direction never got further education or training, pioneered or spent most of their lives knocking on doors for free, making just enough to get by in a part time job.. if you followed direction from the gb then you thought the end was just around the corner so no need to plan for retirement.. now these ones have indeed got old which they were given the impression they never would.
they are a burden on others.
the state has to pay for them in their old age.
LHG: I’m the one who got criticized/shunned for working!!
I bet this happens to a lot of JWs, and I think they do the same thing you did- recognize the hypocrisy of it and walk away. Spending years being pressured to be a 'good JW' by living as if there was no tomorrow, then you retire with a pittance and the GB asks for more money from their comfortable HQ. The same organization that judged you for planning now wants the money you don't have because they wouldn't let you plan.
The same place that has money for lawyers and for giving legal guidance to elders and congregations, but doesn't have any arrangements for helping the needy within their own organization. If you are needy, they point to the example of the old woman who dropped her last two coins in a contribution box at the temple, and was praised by Jesus. So if you have almost nothing, the WTS guidance is... give it to us!
what is with the jw cadence when they speak.
do they think they are teaching people ?
they sound like pro wrestlers doing promos or shakespearean actors.
blondie: even public talks have a supplied outline
I remember that we were told to stick to the outline as strictly as possible. I wonder if the brothers who got a word-for-word version were the ones who couldn't be trusted to stick to the outline. The WTS has always been very concerned about members deviating from the teachings.
just watched november broadcast very different order to the leaked agm .
be good if someone did a deep dive on the difference and why the changes?
i didn’t time the items but it should be easy to see if edited?.
To be honest, the way we were taught to defend our beliefs was meant to deal with the everyday person who knew very little about Christianity or the Bible. I can recall many times that I was challenged on my beliefs and was easily able to parry any approach by using the texts taught to me and that I could find in the Reasoning book.
But my ability to defend JW beliefs would have been strained had I run into anyone who understood those beliefs or had a reasonable grasp of the Bible. If JWs are having trouble defending their beliefs today, the Internet might be the biggest reason for it. People can develop a very effective criticism of JW beliefs by watching a few videos or reading a few messages online.
I don't really think the way that JWs are prepared has really changed all that much. But they are facing a world that is better prepared to respond to them and to attack their beliefs.
