Posts by TonusOH

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: God is doing a work where only those that want him will experience his unimaginable goodness.

But 'goodness' is defined by god, not by us. What if god decides that goodness involves eternal suffering? This would not be wrong, or bad, or immoral on his part, unless you suddenly became the arbiter of such things. Why would you trust that he would act according to your expectations? You admit to being a lowly sinner who cannot earn the rewards he offers, who deserves only damnation. Would god be unjustified if he decided to rescind the reward and give you your just desserts? How?

If good/bad or right/wrong are entirely at god's discretion to determine, then you have no reason to expect anything specific from him. If you feel you are safe because god would never go back on his word, that he would never lie or decieve, you must be assuming that these are bad things. But they're not, if god decides otherwise. What basis is there for expecting that god will act a specific way?

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

TonusOH

I would certainly fear someone who was capable of doing that, and showed an inclination to do so. Would anyone truly be safe?

26

A simple rebuttal to the recent 'Last Minute Repentance' change.

by nicolaou in

for decades, critics have pointed out the unfairness of god slaughtering billions in a future armageddon who never even met a jw much less heard their life-saving message.

(remember the contortions around the collective responsibility of nations?

) also, why do babies and children have to die simply because their parents rejected the witnesses?

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: There’s nothing wrong with serial killers if atheism is true

It seems that you are saying that murder is not inherently wrong, that it's only wrong because god specifically said it was. Are you saying you can't think of a reason why it's not good to kill indiscriminately? Any reason, at all?

48

2024 when will Witnesses admit they are wrong???

by Witness 007 in

1914 generation is long gone.

1975 was a joke 40 years ago.

i know of many witnesses still hanging on for armagedon but when will they give up?

TonusOH

He has to check the cushions, first. That can take a while. Centuries, even!

26

A simple rebuttal to the recent 'Last Minute Repentance' change.

by nicolaou in

for decades, critics have pointed out the unfairness of god slaughtering billions in a future armageddon who never even met a jw much less heard their life-saving message.

(remember the contortions around the collective responsibility of nations?

) also, why do babies and children have to die simply because their parents rejected the witnesses?

TonusOH

The weird thing is that they really don't have to speculate about stuff like whether or not people who died in the flood would be resurrected. What difference does it make to admit there is no clear explanation, and that the matter is in god's hands? But, no! They have to offer explanations for things they can't know, which they will likely have to revisit and possibly disavow later.

It's like they recognize how much power they have over the following, and they feel that it will go to waste if they don't use it, so they use it frivolously just for the thrill. The possible long-term consequences don't matter to them, because they are certain there is no long-term to worry about.

141

THANK YOU Steven Unthank

by cedars in

ohiocowboy has just posted this information on the two other threads dealing with the sudden collapse of the unthank cases.. i don't know steven unthank, but i just want to thank him from the bottom of my heart for having the courage against overwhelming odds to try and bring the watch tower society to justice over their deplorable neglect when it comes to protecting children from abuse and molestation.. steven is a man of justice and integrity who i deeply admire.

his actions will never be forgotten, and i only hope he can find it within himself to continue his work in whatever avenue may become available in the future.. they have won this battle, but they can never win the war.. .

cedars.

TonusOH

Dang, it took only until the second page of the topic for Evans to turn it into a shitfest.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

TonusOH

If you believe in alternate planes of existence, then heaven or hell could be literal and yet not physical. A 'ghost plane' of sorts. It would require that beings have a way of feeling joy or terror in this plane, and possibly comfort and pain. It's all possible when you are using your imagination.

This does force us to consider a being who would design such a universe, where eternal pain and suffering are possible in multiple planes of existence, for no other reason than whether or not he felt offended by the equivalent of a small hair on the back of a dust mite. The level of insanity, cruelty and plain old sadism required should make us thankful that it doesn't exist.

38

the toll of being PIMO

by enoughisenough in

for those of you who are pimo, how do you feel it may be effecting your mental and physical health?

is it easy to pretend to be what you are not?

how do you feel about falsely supporting the pimi which builds them up and therefore an org you don't believe in?

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: But I've come to realize that the reasons people leave are quite different from person to person.

I think it's because there are so many ways in which the WTS separates itself from other denominations of Christianity. Rutherford seemed to have been a contrarian, but also a man of supreme ego. Having his own brand of Christianty must have appealed to him, so he went about making changes that would differentiate it from others.

At first, that sense of separation can make someone feel unique and special. Some begin to feel differently when they have to deal with the effects of shunning, or the blood policy. Many know well the ostracism of deliberately refusing to take part in holiday or birthday celebrations. And we all know that challenging these policies risks being disfellowshipped and shunned. At some point, you will feel like something is very wrong.

A 'good' JW will suppress those feelings. Anyone else will pull back the curtain.

24

JWlite like being a Trekkie. You know it’s fictional

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

jw
friends

i now view jwlite like the trekkie conventions.

star trek is fiction and all the fans know this full well.

but they find it beneficial.

TonusOH

It's kind of the reverse. I would wager that most Star Trek fans shun the ultra-hard-core gatekeeper types who insist on sucking all of the fun out of the fandom. They have no real power or influence, just some scar tissue from all the wedgies they experienced in high school.*

*Hmmm, maybe they do have something in common with the GB...

3069

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

The way YouTube manages the display of subscriber numbers makes them seem almost as lazy as Evans.