Posts by TonusOH

153

When JW.org drops 607BCE...

by Nathan Natas in

probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

" by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

TonusOH

scholar: My challenge on this forum is for any such opponent or critic to show such proof that 607 BCE is not the date for the Fall of Jerusalem by means of at least one line of evidence.

Isn't it the consensus of historians (the people who would know this stuff) that the actual date is either 587BC or 586BC? This seems to be what even you have said. If the people who actually know this stuff have a date different than the 607BC that the WTS uses, wouldn't that be the strongest evidence against your claim? Is this even an issue amongst historians?

Mind you, I understand why you are willing to die on this hill. But your approach is predicated on everyone else being wrong and the WTS being right. The same WTS that admits its fallibility after decades of being wrong about stuff. "Bible chronology" is the domain of con-men and charlatans. Why would anyone need to disprove a made-up timeline?

86

Prediction: no more changes for a long while

by slimboyfat in

i’ve noticed a pattern where things don’t go the way i expect them to go and/or whenever i realise there is a trend and, i mentally adjust for the idea that the trend will continue, the trend stops in its tracks.

so on that basis, and given many people, including myself, and active jws, have been asking ‘what changes will the governing body make next?’ perhaps the (disappointing) answer is: ‘nothing much for a while to come’.

maybe they’ve made the changes they want for now, and will wait a while and see how it’s received.

TonusOH

You do get some elders who let the position get to their heads. The congregation where I went, they woud not have allowed a brother to do anything if he had a noticeable beard. Even if it was just "I forgot to shave," some other brother would have handled microphones or read the magazine for the study or given a prayer, etc.

I cringe at some of these stories, and I recall hearing similar ones when I was in. We had a few snobby elders in our congregation, but they toed the line when it came to taking their job seriously. The snobby guys were mostly a problem behind the scenes, which made their progress even slower, which just made them more of a pain in the neck.

3062

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

MeanMrMustard: Did he go to a comedy club or something? Wtf?

Yeah, he got on stage to do stand up. The crowd was laughing hysterically and enjoying themselves, stopping only when he began to tell jokes.

153

When JW.org drops 607BCE...

by Nathan Natas in

probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

" by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

TonusOH

Switch out 1919 for 1939 and focus on the start of WW2 and presto! You have a momentous world occasion to mark your "Biblical Chronology." Problem solved!

Of course, this would mean that Jesus checked his spiritual temple in 1939 and was pleased to see the boozy president of the WTS being driven around in expensive cars and spending the summer in a mansion on the west coast during the Great Depression. Beggars can't be choosers, I guess.

13

How the Society can change anything they want

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

it's been a long time since i last posted here.

however in light of recent changes i have thought a bit about things and have come to the conclusion that the society might.

.. use the "evil slave" argument.

TonusOH

The potential danger of going mainstream is that members may become more comfortable reading about the WTS from sources that aren't approved. I don't know when was the last time they explained their interpretation of Revelation and how it applies to them in 1919. If it hasn't been mentioned in a long enough time, they just memory-hole it.

After all, their books once explained how the measurments of Egyptian pyramids helped with their timelines for predicting events. They thought Jehovah's "home" was in the Pleiades. They stated that organ transplants amounted to cannibalism. They bought a house in preparation for the resurrection of Biblical personalities who would arrive soon and rule as princes. There have to be some JWs who have old magazines/letters from the 60s and 70s in their possession that refer to the "months remaining" before the end of the world. And so on.

They have never been shy about putting their ideas in writing for the rank-and-file, and then brazenly blaming that same rank-and-file for misreading or misremembering those printed words. But that requires a level of control and fear that have to be maintained. The more mainstream they become, the higher the risk of people holding them to their promises and predictions, and not backing down in the face of lies and misdirection.

64

I am not redsetter, here is his message for you

by redsetter2 in

you read this correctly.

as i explained in an earlier post, i am a "ghostwriter" for the original resetter.

i'm a woman, a pimo regular pioneer working for my friend who was redsetter1 on reddit.

TonusOH

That is what I was thinking, Halcon. If they change the reporting method to one that makes it possible to "be active" while doing a minimal amount of preaching, and this results in a drop in activity, it may be too late to do anything about it. Griping about the decrease in Bible studies may be a case of closing the barn doors after the horses have escaped.

64

I am not redsetter, here is his message for you

by redsetter2 in

you read this correctly.

as i explained in an earlier post, i am a "ghostwriter" for the original resetter.

i'm a woman, a pimo regular pioneer working for my friend who was redsetter1 on reddit.

TonusOH

I don't see a problem with someone making posts claiming to be an insider and giving info on what they are learning. But our skepticism is a natural response. Put the info out there, and let time demonstrate if you were right or not. Remember, we are mostly escapees from a cult that (we later learned) made many false predictions.

If people that we knew and trusted lied to us, how do you think we will react to an anonymous stranger on a web forum?

13

How the Society can change anything they want

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

it's been a long time since i last posted here.

however in light of recent changes i have thought a bit about things and have come to the conclusion that the society might.

.. use the "evil slave" argument.

TonusOH

They would probably present it as new light and imply that Jehovah had his reasons for misleading them all of this time. In the past, they have used the excuse that their incorrect predictions had a beneficial effect. So, even if they were wrong, they did the right thing, and it was proof that god was on their side. If you can get away with that, you are free to make all kinds of changes without worrying about the rank-and-file. They will go along.

The issue is with exJWs and/or worldly courts, which won't be inclined to accept "we meant well" as an excuse.

40

Was it Designed?

by Jeffro in

the jw website is currently featuring a piece: the shell of the diabolical ironclad beetle—was it designed?

it is part of their regular tedious 'was it designed?

' series that purports that very very specific animal species must have been specifically designed because of some seemingly amazing feature.. but they seem completely unaware that this directly contradicts their notion that only very broad 'kinds' were required on the mythical 'ark'.

TonusOH

It's an interesting series. I can't wait for the next episode: Necrotizing fasciitis -- was it designed?

26

Im hearing some say that the Org is about to reverse the No Blood policy - about to change...

by BeaverEater in

uh, i wonder if that is true... hearing this from friends within bethel... gonna laugh my ass of if they change this....

TonusOH

Blood is a finite resource, in a manner of speaking. Hospitals are always looking for ways to minimize its use, and JWs have occasionally benefitted.

I doubt that they will announce a clear change in direction, because it could open them up to lawsuits and more unwanted attention. But it would not surprise me if they kept hinting that it was now a conscience issue and not a line in the sand. They have weakened the policy so much with the allowance of fractions that easing up on the use of whole blood wouldn't be a scandal.