TonusOH

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Posts by TonusOH

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  30

  How many different "rules" do Jehovah's Witnesses have to obey? Can you count them?

  by Balaamsass2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  all the big changes for jws since this last fall brought me back to this site, and got me and the wife talking.

  just how many things were we not allowed to do growing up as jehovah's witnesses?

  we were so used to all the rules, customs, and traditions, that we became used to them.. one site i found claims there are 141 unique rules!!

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  TonusOH

  127. Speaking in tongues
  128. Laying on of hands
  129. Energy healing such as Reiki

  So... just like everyone else?

  I like the list in general, but it looks like they added some stuff just to pad the length.
  
  
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  3062

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  The good news is that he thinks that dragging it out works in his favor. So he will continue to do so. Granted, I don't think there is any scenario that works out for him:

  He can let it run its course (and it gets dismissed). He can gripe about the lack of justice and how the courts let him down, and then just try to let it fade into the background and be forgotten. Just like the WTS does, lol. He'll have to deal with being mocked for giving up on his promise to hunt Kim down for the next 40 years. Even better, he might look for other ways to "legally" get satisfaction and start down a road of one hilarious misstep after another. I mean, he's had plenty of practice the last couple of years!

  OR...

  He can drag it out and mention it as little as possible, then try to use it for fundraising ("the lawsuit keeps dragging through the Croatian courts, and I'd like for you patrons to pay for my endless crusade for justice. You don't want Kim to win, do you? DO YOU???"). But there are only so many times you can go back to that well, even with a hardcore JW-style audience to grift from. And, gee... what if they find out you've been preventing its progress in order to milk the situation for sympathy and donations?

  Also, I want to thank him for handling things so badly by being an arrogant prick. If he wasn't in such a hurry to bury Kim, he might have made her life a much, much more miserable experience than he managed. Here's to Lloyd Evans being such a vindictive and hateful person that his actions ended up hurting the person who deserved it most: himself.
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  153

  When JW.org drops 607BCE...

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

  in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

  " by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

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  TonusOH

  scholar: My challenge on this forum is for any such opponent or critic to show such proof that 607 BCE is not the date for the Fall of Jerusalem by means of at least one line of evidence.

  Isn't it the consensus of historians (the people who would know this stuff) that the actual date is either 587BC or 586BC? This seems to be what even you have said. If the people who actually know this stuff have a date different than the 607BC that the WTS uses, wouldn't that be the strongest evidence against your claim? Is this even an issue amongst historians?

  Mind you, I understand why you are willing to die on this hill. But your approach is predicated on everyone else being wrong and the WTS being right. The same WTS that admits its fallibility after decades of being wrong about stuff. "Bible chronology" is the domain of con-men and charlatans. Why would anyone need to disprove a made-up timeline?
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  86

  Prediction: no more changes for a long while

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i’ve noticed a pattern where things don’t go the way i expect them to go and/or whenever i realise there is a trend and, i mentally adjust for the idea that the trend will continue, the trend stops in its tracks.

  so on that basis, and given many people, including myself, and active jws, have been asking ‘what changes will the governing body make next?’ perhaps the (disappointing) answer is: ‘nothing much for a while to come’.

  maybe they’ve made the changes they want for now, and will wait a while and see how it’s received.

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  TonusOH

  You do get some elders who let the position get to their heads. The congregation where I went, they woud not have allowed a brother to do anything if he had a noticeable beard. Even if it was just "I forgot to shave," some other brother would have handled microphones or read the magazine for the study or given a prayer, etc.

  I cringe at some of these stories, and I recall hearing similar ones when I was in. We had a few snobby elders in our congregation, but they toed the line when it came to taking their job seriously. The snobby guys were mostly a problem behind the scenes, which made their progress even slower, which just made them more of a pain in the neck.
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  3062

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  MeanMrMustard: Did he go to a comedy club or something? Wtf?

  Yeah, he got on stage to do stand up. The crowd was laughing hysterically and enjoying themselves, stopping only when he began to tell jokes.
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  153

  When JW.org drops 607BCE...

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

  in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

  " by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

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  TonusOH

  Switch out 1919 for 1939 and focus on the start of WW2 and presto! You have a momentous world occasion to mark your "Biblical Chronology." Problem solved!

  Of course, this would mean that Jesus checked his spiritual temple in 1939 and was pleased to see the boozy president of the WTS being driven around in expensive cars and spending the summer in a mansion on the west coast during the Great Depression. Beggars can't be choosers, I guess.
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  13

  How the Society can change anything they want

  by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's been a long time since i last posted here.

  however in light of recent changes i have thought a bit about things and have come to the conclusion that the society might.

  .. use the "evil slave" argument.

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  TonusOH

  The potential danger of going mainstream is that members may become more comfortable reading about the WTS from sources that aren't approved. I don't know when was the last time they explained their interpretation of Revelation and how it applies to them in 1919. If it hasn't been mentioned in a long enough time, they just memory-hole it.

  After all, their books once explained how the measurments of Egyptian pyramids helped with their timelines for predicting events. They thought Jehovah's "home" was in the Pleiades. They stated that organ transplants amounted to cannibalism. They bought a house in preparation for the resurrection of Biblical personalities who would arrive soon and rule as princes. There have to be some JWs who have old magazines/letters from the 60s and 70s in their possession that refer to the "months remaining" before the end of the world. And so on.

  They have never been shy about putting their ideas in writing for the rank-and-file, and then brazenly blaming that same rank-and-file for misreading or misremembering those printed words. But that requires a level of control and fear that have to be maintained. The more mainstream they become, the higher the risk of people holding them to their promises and predictions, and not backing down in the face of lies and misdirection.
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  64

  I am not redsetter, here is his message for you

  by redsetter2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you read this correctly.

  as i explained in an earlier post, i am a "ghostwriter" for the original resetter.

  i'm a woman, a pimo regular pioneer working for my friend who was redsetter1 on reddit.

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  TonusOH

  That is what I was thinking, Halcon. If they change the reporting method to one that makes it possible to "be active" while doing a minimal amount of preaching, and this results in a drop in activity, it may be too late to do anything about it. Griping about the decrease in Bible studies may be a case of closing the barn doors after the horses have escaped.
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  64

  I am not redsetter, here is his message for you

  by redsetter2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you read this correctly.

  as i explained in an earlier post, i am a "ghostwriter" for the original resetter.

  i'm a woman, a pimo regular pioneer working for my friend who was redsetter1 on reddit.

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  TonusOH

  I don't see a problem with someone making posts claiming to be an insider and giving info on what they are learning. But our skepticism is a natural response. Put the info out there, and let time demonstrate if you were right or not. Remember, we are mostly escapees from a cult that (we later learned) made many false predictions.

  If people that we knew and trusted lied to us, how do you think we will react to an anonymous stranger on a web forum?
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  13

  How the Society can change anything they want

  by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's been a long time since i last posted here.

  however in light of recent changes i have thought a bit about things and have come to the conclusion that the society might.

  .. use the "evil slave" argument.

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  TonusOH

  They would probably present it as new light and imply that Jehovah had his reasons for misleading them all of this time. In the past, they have used the excuse that their incorrect predictions had a beneficial effect. So, even if they were wrong, they did the right thing, and it was proof that god was on their side. If you can get away with that, you are free to make all kinds of changes without worrying about the rank-and-file. They will go along.

  The issue is with exJWs and/or worldly courts, which won't be inclined to accept "we meant well" as an excuse.