Posts by TonusOH

21

Lithuania Set to Mirror Norway's Approach on Jehovah's Witnesses

by raymond frantz in

it is proposed to the seimas not to grant state recognition to the religious community of jehovah's witnesses.

lithuania05/05/2024 09:30. jehovah's witnesses; baptism associative / e. ovcharenko / bns photo.. it is proposed to the seimas to refuse to grant state recognition to the lithuanian jehovah's witnesses religious community.. community representatives told bns that they hope that parliamentarians, taking into account the practice of the european court of human rights, will make a different decision.. the draft resolution registered by the chairman of the human rights committee of the seimas, tomas vytautas raskevičius, states that this community does not meet the requirements of the constitution and the law, that its education and rites do not conflict with laws and decency.. "the ministry of justice has determined that the religious teaching of this community is possibly not compatible with the constitution of our country in two aspects.

the first is that jehovah's witnesses oppose blood transfusions due to certain aspects related to health care (...).

TonusOH

I am wondering if there are any other EU states that subsidize religious groups the way Norway does. The WTS will challenge this ruling because it could cause a cascade effect, and if there are any other nations that pay you for being a religion, they stand to lose out on that money.

But this will also be used by them for PR. "Look at how they oppress us! Just as we predicted before the end!" Meanwhile, the main effect is that they can't sign official marriage documents. They can still have a fancy wedding celebration with all of the trappings, but they can't make it official. This slightest of inconveniences is the price they will pay. And they will paint it as persecution that proves the last days are almost over (yet again).

It's a weird way to encourage people to join, though. "Become part of our non-religion before it's too late!"

49

40 Years Ago Today: May 15th 1984 "1914 Generation" issue was released. False prophecy, thy name is WatchTower.

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

it's incredible how this cover, and also this "series" of watchtower's is burned into my mind.

i was almost 5 years old when these were released.

“1914 and you” — may 1, 1984 watchtower.

TonusOH

If they need another iconic cover, they can use that one with a picture superimposed over it, of more recent JWs. In other words, the images should.... OVERLAP.

I was 16 in 1984, too. By this time I was probably wavering in my confidence that I would not graduate high school before the end of the present system of things. The same doomed world that is still here, 40 years later.

3056

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

LMsA: I mean how can you look at someone like Dijana and think: “Damn I want her up the ass so badly. Nothing else, just gotta have that ass”.

Dominance. Humiliation. Control. Break someone down enough, and their self-esteem erodes away. It shows us who/what he really is. He speaks of how important one's sexuality is. He considers himself a 'sexual being.' His rage at the WTS is based mostly on their restrictive policies towards sex and sexual stimulation. His "sexual identity" is what matters most to him.

So, when he demands that his wife submit to anal sex (which she probably did not want), it's a way to assert dominance and break down her confidence and self-image. When he asks for an open marriage, he is trying to humiliate her (remember, he was disappointed to find that she "wasn't enough" for him). When she changes her mind and he blows up, it's an attempt to intimidate her and put her back in her place. When she finds out that he is chasing after ~~girls~~ women online and on street corners and he reacts by blaming it on 'problems with their marriage', he is really putting the blame on her. He pretends that their problems are due to the WTS 'messing him up' and his wife making it worse, which implies that she's just as bad as the JWs (one of his common clapbacks at his critics).

In other words, this is the kind of behavior you see from abusive spouses. Break down her self-esteem and self-confidence, blame her for everything, and pretend to be forgiving when she comes crawling on her knees. And then you rinse and repeat, because it is a cycle. It never stops.

tl;dr- he's an abuser.

49

Q about Jesus' sacrifice

by oncebitten in

jw
friends

i have several jw family members.

i have been shunned many years now.

i was not baptized, but i was indoctrinated as a child.

TonusOH

oncebitten: There is a vast difference between the two.

I don't see it. The JW explanation is that JWs can ask forgiveness from Jehovah by using Jesus as an intermediary. He offers his blood to pay that price. Thus, his sacrifice covers the sins of humanity. Adam's actions locked the door to salvation, and Jesus's actions unlocked it. If the objection is that his sacrifice is not automatic (that is, that one must repent before it can be appliced), I don't see an issue. It's the opportunity that matters.

Don't get me wrong, I think the whole concept is overwrought. Nothing stops god from simply forgiving us without requiring that blood be spilled. But I don't see a difference between "Jesus dying for Adam's sin" and "Jesus dying for our sins," because the mechanics lead to the same end result. If anything, the JW version is a poorly-worded explanation that was probably borne out of their need to be contrary about even minor details. The Rutherford Effect, if you will.

40

1963 Resolution Condemning the United Nations

by Sea Breeze in

quote from that world wide resolution: .

that, in order to prevent the destruction of the nations by their own means in war, the nations further refused the surrender of their sovereignty to god’s messianic kingdom by setting up a society of nations, which, since 1945, has taken the form and the name of the united nations, with international headquarters at new york city.

this international organization stands for world sovereignty by political men.

TonusOH

Thanks, Earnest. That's pretty funny, that one of their own sub-organizations is making Russell's old work available.

49

Q about Jesus' sacrifice

by oncebitten in

jw
friends

i have several jw family members.

i have been shunned many years now.

i was not baptized, but i was indoctrinated as a child.

TonusOH

oncebitten: Jesus didnt die for our sins- he died for Adam's sins

I don't think I ever heard it expressed that way. To me, both statements are saying the same thing. If Adam's sin is what condemned humanity, then Jesus's sacrifice is what saved it. By balancing the scales to negate the cost of Adam's sin, he has given humanity a path for the expiation of their own.

But it does sound like the kind of thing some JWs would say. They seem to have a need to "correct" almost any statement made by a non-JW about Christianity.

21

Vomit Eaters and Filthy Whores

by Sea Breeze in

the watchtower characterizes christians not affiliated with the watchtower corporation as vomit eaters and filthy whores: .

“how well they pictured the spiritual drunkards of christendom at the present time!

besides actual wine and intoxicating liquors, there are other things to intoxicate the priests and preachers in christendom so as to induce drowsiness in them, to make them reel, to confuse things before their religious vision, to induce them to belch out the vomit of spiritually filthy things” - w59 3/1 pp.

TonusOH

When I was a JW, 'Christendom' was basically a slur. Every other religion is false and part of Satan's world, and so on. Non-JW Christians were singled out, I think because JWs in the early part of the 20th century took a lot of abuse from them in the USA. Not unexpected, from a relatively new religious group that seemed to delight in poking every other religion in the eye.

I don't know how they would view other Christian denominations now, but they still have a mostly rigid concept of salvation. If you had a chance to hear the JW message and chose not to (or rejected it), you are doomed. I guess the new approach to judgment at Armageddon might have changed that.

40

1963 Resolution Condemning the United Nations

by Sea Breeze in

quote from that world wide resolution: .

that, in order to prevent the destruction of the nations by their own means in war, the nations further refused the surrender of their sovereignty to god’s messianic kingdom by setting up a society of nations, which, since 1945, has taken the form and the name of the united nations, with international headquarters at new york city.

this international organization stands for world sovereignty by political men.

TonusOH

Just for clarification: in what way does the WTBTS "own" the IBSA? Legally? Metaphorically? Is there any way to verify this ownership, once it is defined? Is it because they're selling Russell's old works?

I'm almost curious about what happened after Rutherford changed their name from IBS to JWs.

43

VERY NEW AT THIS BUT LOST IN SPACE

by stephenlettclownface in

jw
friends

i apologize if this post ends up in the wrong place.

i have been a lurker here for several years.

i thoroughly enjoy this site, have for years, and read something or another on this site many times a week.

TonusOH

jehovaxx: Surely this is true of any feeling of brotherhood?

No. Even without context, we can understand how some bonds are much stronger than others.

But in context, we also understand that the conditions for brotherhood as a JW are not healthy. The requirement to treat someone as a pariah at the drop of a hat, only to reverse course just as suddenly, is emotionally jarring. Especially when the action is not due to something between you and that person, but a decision handed down without explanation or detail, and enforced with the threat of your own disfellowshipping. And, if that person is readmitted to the group, you must welcome them back and pretend that everything is as it was before. It's not.

Add the family dynamic to this, and the consequences are that much more painful. Moral relativism is not going to ease that suffering.

43

VERY NEW AT THIS BUT LOST IN SPACE

by stephenlettclownface in

jw
friends

i apologize if this post ends up in the wrong place.

i have been a lurker here for several years.

i thoroughly enjoy this site, have for years, and read something or another on this site many times a week.

TonusOH

Hi SLCF, and welcome.

I wouldn't say that the feeling of brotherhood was fake, but it was conditional. It is built on a false premise. The idea is that extreme isolation and distancing is the only way to deal with those who are not in 'good standing.' The organization demands that its members act in ways totally anathema to the way they are used to treating each other, but also to go right back to being brothers and friends if a person's status reverts to 'good standing.' This is stressful, especially when we've been conditioned to be loving and brotherly and generous with one another.

And this conditioning can last a very long time. Glad to see you've come to terms with it and have freed yourself.