i found out recently that michelangelo's painting of adam on the sistine chapel depicts him without a belly button.
i had never noticed this before and it makes sense that neither adam nor eve would have belly buttons, not having been born in the usual way.
then i realized all the first animals were created rather than born, according to the religious views of the origin of life.
jwundubbed: makes me wonder why no one tries to use that as an argument for why the chicken came first...
For the creationist, the answer is pretty obvious: God made the first chicken. I guess they could theorize whether God created eggs which hatched into chickens, but that doesn't seem to be what the Genesis account describes.
For the non-creationist, it's something of a thought experiment or a way to describe situations where the starting point isn't quite clear.
sea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.
if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.
pathetic diversion.
Halcon: He is clearly intentional in hiding the details of our future from us.
Halcon: indeed he does expect a lot of us to fail
These are the actions of someone who should not engender our trust.
Halcon: But what actually happens does not negate what would be his desire.
He has the power to achieve what he desires. If he does not achieve something, then he did not desire it. If he is actively working against his own desires, then he is not trustworthy. One has to wonder about the nature of a person who behaves in such a manner. When this person is also the unstoppable force behind the universe and the only person who can determine our eternal future, the notion that he might exist should terrify us.
good pick?
bad pick?
helpful to president biden?
Gorb: The 2 party system in the USA makes it difficult when ypu can't find yourself into the party line, seems to me.
This is a huge problem here. Not just that there are two major parties, but they take opposing stances on nearly every issue, and they make sure to stake out ground on every issue. If you have views on various issues that do not align with one party's platform, you are in a sort of political limbo. And good luck expressing an opinion around a political fanatic; if you say the 'wrong' thing, you are immediately placed into a category, regardless of any of your other views.
The effect is to smother any party that tries to emerge, because their platforms will necessarily overlap with one of the others. It becomes a battle of attrition, and the above attitude (regarding absolute allegiance to the party line) makes it difficult to hold more moderate views on a variety of topics.
This is how we end up with elections between Joe Biden Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. There may be some third party candidates, but they will be lucky to get a tenth of a percent of the vote in one or two states.
sea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.
if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.
pathetic diversion.
The thing is, before long my present would be an eternal existence. And we are capable of assessing and planning for our future. I would say that a fair amount of the stress we deal with is when we are worried about the future, both near and long term. If we are incapable of properly assessing our long-term outlook, that is a pretty glaring design flaw on God's part. It would seem to me that he expects a lot of us to fail, which is in direct contrast with his desire for all of us to be saved.
sea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.
if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.
pathetic diversion.
Halcon: I would say the most important and crucial facet of our lives is the present, the here and now.
If we lack an eternal future, then I agree. But if this life is a microscopically tiny portion of my overall existence, then its importance is equally minor. Not knowing what is next would be a major concern. When I was a believer, my presuppositions provided some comfort, because I could ignore the problems with the way we defined God. The version of God that Christianity has constructed over the centuries is very unsettling if we remove the presuppositions that are in direct contrast with how he has been defined.
Duran: who's version of good and bad, right and wrong would be correct in your way of thinking?
Well, I would ask you: is it possible to explain why murder, theft, deception, or rape are wrong? Do you believe that these actions are inherently neutral, and only immoral because God says they are? Is there no basis upon which we could build a moral foundation without God?
1. the continuity and visibility of the church.
the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.
there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.
Trying to wave off horrific acts like the inquisition and CSA by priests as an annoyance is not the flex you seem to think it is. The Church's past may be inconvenient, but it is far more than an inconvenience.
sea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.
if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.
pathetic diversion.
Duran: Had the first 10 not died when/how they did, they would still have died at some point.
I guess we can add efficiency to the list of God's attributes.
not just jw's, but countless others (evangelicals etc.
) are claiming that we're in the "last days.".
but........bible students/jw's have been spouting this fake message since the 19th century!!!!!!.
Teach prophets, make profits!
jws seem to firmly believe that before the flood mankind eas vegan or at least vegetarian.. however, in gen 1:24,25 it says that god created livestock (domestic animals) and beasts of the eart (wild beasts).. why would adam and eve need livestock if they were vegan and naked?
wouldn't need wool or hide for clothing, nor meat for food.
possibly for dairy products only?
Isn't there a verse in Isaiah that implies that carnivores would one day eat vegetation?
Yeah, Isaiah 65:25: "The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the LORD."
Boy, it will really suck to be a serpent. But that's what they get for fooling Eve.
im not a bible scholar - lets just get that out the way first.
i recently came across exodus 22:29, which is an interesting scripture that seems to require israelites to sacrifice their firstborn to god.. i searched this forum and cant seem to find any topic about it so i thought id start one and see what you guys think.
im sure it probably has been discussed here already, but i cant find it.. anyway, exodus 22:29 says:.
The WTS gave us the impression that Jepthah's daughter was given over to service as a sort of Temple worker, part of an apparent group of such young women, who would take a vow of celibacy. I think the latter part is to account for his daughter's request that she be given time to mourn her virginity, or something like that. It's possible that she wanted some time to reflect on her life in the short time left before she was 'given over' to Yahweh.
This is, after all, the same deity who cannot forgive you for wrongdoing unless something else dies, first.
