Posts by TonusOH

42

What would happen to a JW for celebrating Christmas?

by Vanderhoven7 in

mark jones writes:.

if they were spied upon and it was reported to the elders they’d be “invited” to a judicial committee whereupon they’d be cross examined in a locked backroom by three men acting as judge and jury to decide if they are guilty.. .

if the elders decide that they are guilty, they’ll then decide if the person is sorry.

TonusOH

I suppose they could make it a "conscience matter" at first, then look the other way as more and more JWs celebrated. But it's a sticky issue for them, because for so long it was one of the ways they differentiated themselves from "false religion" and "Christendom." If they end up saying it's okay, then decades of denounciation go out the window. Also, one of their rationales was that Xmas has pagan origins, and that's not entirely false.

On the other hand, if you're going to say it's okay to celebrate Jesus's birthday, then birthday celebrations are also okay. Next thing you know, Easter is on the table.

Honestly... I just don't see it. It would be a clear sign that they are going mainstream, and the whole idea was that mainstream Christianity is a tool of the Devil designed to draw people away from Jehovah. From Rutherford's time, they did not pass up a chance to attack non-JW denominations as false, as offensive to God. That is a whole lot of history to turn their backs on. How many books/magazines would they need to destroy to clean up that mess?

75

Would you be able to survive a three day Assembly?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

the last assembly i attended was over 10 years ago.

the monotone speakers, boring talks, uncomfortable seats, long prayers and nodding off after the lunch break did me in.

i survived the morning sessions, but the afternoon sessions were brutal.

TonusOH

I went to the international convention in 1979. That was five days. After that, I think it was four-day conventions. I don't even remember if they had gone to three-day conventions when I stopped going. My last convention was probably in the late 90s.

Today? Today I wouldn't last a minute, much less a day.

42

What would happen to a JW for celebrating Christmas?

by Vanderhoven7 in

mark jones writes:.

if they were spied upon and it was reported to the elders they’d be “invited” to a judicial committee whereupon they’d be cross examined in a locked backroom by three men acting as judge and jury to decide if they are guilty.. .

if the elders decide that they are guilty, they’ll then decide if the person is sorry.

TonusOH

I do recall one year where my mother bought us some toys and games in mid or late December. She was a very frugal person, so the reason was probably that there was a sale on them. As young children, we didn't care, since she rarely bought these items. I can remember that we told each other --in VERY hushed tones-- that it was like we were celebrating Christmas!

My dad was not a JW (save for a very brief period in the early 80s) and one of his brothers did bring us Christmas presents when we were very young. I think my mother put a stop to that. So we had a bit of an idea of what it was like for children.

54

Covering up bathroom mirrors at the assemblies!!!

by nojudgement in

jw
friends

this was one of the craziest things i remember about the summer conventions.

i would go into the sister's bathrooms and the mirrors would all be taped up with brown paper so that we couldn't look at our reflections.

were were amish or something?

TonusOH

TonyT: Lets see now ...smurfs are bad

This made me smile. My older sister had a collection of Smurfs figurines, which we played with as if they were toys (they kind of were, made of a tough but slightly flexible plastic). One day my mother got rid of them. She later told some sisters that she had "done some research" and learned that they were "of demonic origin." This was not at all the case. But, the cartoon series did feature magic and JWs get pretty bent out of shape when anyone other than Jehovah uses magic.

For the record, I don't think my mother did any "research" into the Smurfs. But I bet it sounded good to the other JWs to have someone act as an informed authority and confirm their suspicions that a popular cartoon was demonic. JWs in the 1980s seemed to find a demon behind every corner. Listen to the wrong music? Get demons! Read the wrong books? Get demons! Watch the wrong movies? Get demons! Stories of 'good' JWs who burned 'demonic' books, records, or toys were all the rage for a while.

The 'Sparlock' video is such a toned-down version of that hysteria that it almost seems quaint, if the underlying idea wasn't so sinister.

36

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

by jwundubbed in

i found out recently that michelangelo's painting of adam on the sistine chapel depicts him without a belly button.

i had never noticed this before and it makes sense that neither adam nor eve would have belly buttons, not having been born in the usual way.

then i realized all the first animals were created rather than born, according to the religious views of the origin of life.

TonusOH

jwundubbed: makes me wonder why no one tries to use that as an argument for why the chicken came first...

For the creationist, the answer is pretty obvious: God made the first chicken. I guess they could theorize whether God created eggs which hatched into chickens, but that doesn't seem to be what the Genesis account describes.

For the non-creationist, it's something of a thought experiment or a way to describe situations where the starting point isn't quite clear.

75

God won't lift a finger to help you.

by nicolaou in

sea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.

if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.

pathetic diversion.

TonusOH

Halcon: He is clearly intentional in hiding the details of our future from us.

Halcon: indeed he does expect a lot of us to fail

These are the actions of someone who should not engender our trust.

Halcon: But what actually happens does not negate what would be his desire.

He has the power to achieve what he desires. If he does not achieve something, then he did not desire it. If he is actively working against his own desires, then he is not trustworthy. One has to wonder about the nature of a person who behaves in such a manner. When this person is also the unstoppable force behind the universe and the only person who can determine our eternal future, the notion that he might exist should terrify us.

115

Vice President Kamala Harris…your thoughts??

by minimus in

jw
friends

good pick?

bad pick?

helpful to president biden?

TonusOH

Gorb: The 2 party system in the USA makes it difficult when ypu can't find yourself into the party line, seems to me.

This is a huge problem here. Not just that there are two major parties, but they take opposing stances on nearly every issue, and they make sure to stake out ground on every issue. If you have views on various issues that do not align with one party's platform, you are in a sort of political limbo. And good luck expressing an opinion around a political fanatic; if you say the 'wrong' thing, you are immediately placed into a category, regardless of any of your other views.

The effect is to smother any party that tries to emerge, because their platforms will necessarily overlap with one of the others. It becomes a battle of attrition, and the above attitude (regarding absolute allegiance to the party line) makes it difficult to hold more moderate views on a variety of topics.

This is how we end up with elections between ~~Joe Biden~~ Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. There may be some third party candidates, but they will be lucky to get a tenth of a percent of the vote in one or two states.

75

God won't lift a finger to help you.

by nicolaou in

sea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.

if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.

pathetic diversion.

TonusOH

The thing is, before long my present would be an eternal existence. And we are capable of assessing and planning for our future. I would say that a fair amount of the stress we deal with is when we are worried about the future, both near and long term. If we are incapable of properly assessing our long-term outlook, that is a pretty glaring design flaw on God's part. It would seem to me that he expects a lot of us to fail, which is in direct contrast with his desire for all of us to be saved.

75

God won't lift a finger to help you.

by nicolaou in

sea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.

if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.

pathetic diversion.

TonusOH

Halcon: I would say the most important and crucial facet of our lives is the present, the here and now.

If we lack an eternal future, then I agree. But if this life is a microscopically tiny portion of my overall existence, then its importance is equally minor. Not knowing what is next would be a major concern. When I was a believer, my presuppositions provided some comfort, because I could ignore the problems with the way we defined God. The version of God that Christianity has constructed over the centuries is very unsettling if we remove the presuppositions that are in direct contrast with how he has been defined.

Duran: who's version of good and bad, right and wrong would be correct in your way of thinking?

Well, I would ask you: is it possible to explain why murder, theft, deception, or rape are wrong? Do you believe that these actions are inherently neutral, and only immoral because God says they are? Is there no basis upon which we could build a moral foundation without God?

60

The Question of the "Great Apostasy" and the Historical Continuity of Christianity

by aqwsed12345 in

1. the continuity and visibility of the church.

the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.

there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.

TonusOH

Trying to wave off horrific acts like the inquisition and CSA by priests as an annoyance is not the flex you seem to think it is. The Church's past may be inconvenient, but it is far more than an inconvenience.