Posts by TonusOH

18

Changing the Date of the Memorial?

by KalebOutWest in

i noticed in the latest memorial invitation, the dates for the observance are odd--well far more odd than usual.. what i mean is that forever as i can remember, jehovah's witnesses use to advertise really big that this was nisan 14. they don't tend to do this anymore.. and being jewish, their dates now tend to align with passover, or at least with the second seder night of passover.. 2025: saturday, april 12 (nisan 15).

2026: thursday, april 2 (nisan 15/16).

2027: monday, march 22 (nisan 15/16).

TonusOH

I don't think the WTS should have tried to be so picky about the date. They don't observe the memorial as part of a larger observance or celebration, so they could have picked a more consistent day and time. For example, make it the second Saturday in April, or something like that. Based on the handful of times that they missed the exact date, and the changes in the next few years, it is clear that Jehovah wasn't picky about it.

405

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

TonusOH

Halcon: But to answer your question, that person would very likely tell you which God they feel in their heart and why. Or maybe they couldn't.

That last part speaks to the point I am making. The person who tells me that he experiences god in his heart can claim that it is one god or another, and there is no way to challenge his claim that everyone can agree upon. Indeed, his description of "god in his heart" may not match anyone else's. But I bet his description of heartbreak, or of what he felt when he touched a hot surface, would be easily and accurately understood by everyone else.

Keep in mind that I am accepting your approach at face value, and even that only gets us as far as "maybe it could be." Gods exist in a muddy world of conjecture, in a place that we define however we wish. And that is the extent of our evidence for them. For a concept of such tremendous potential importance, that is a shockingly thin thread to depend upon.

405

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

TonusOH

Halcon: To this you can add how they feel about themselves on any given day.

Day-to-day changes in our mood is something that humans --with rare exceptions-- all share and can compare reliably. I'd go as far as to say we have a set of standards that we can use to understand this consistently. Not so for the person who claims to remember previous lives, for example.

Halcon: Or how about the person who is inexplicably happy over the loss of someone or something? Or the person who is sad over gaining something and can't tell you why, they just are?

Those sound like exceptions that prove the rule. You admit that these examples are difficult to explain, and I would agree that people would feel a need to rationalize such behavior, because it is outside of an accepted norm. The person who feels god in his heart may be referring to Yahweh, Vishnu, or any number of beings. How would you determine that this feeling is Jesus, and not Brahma?

405

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

TonusOH

Halcon: Across societies and nations, people can agree on how it feels to have God in their hearts.

Do they, really? I strongly suspect that, if I asked people even in one geographic region, I would get many different descriptions of what that means. And this assumes they belong to the same religion and acknowledge the same god.

If we expand that group across the people of the world, they don't. They belong to different religions (and denominations within those religions) and worship different gods (or different versions of the same god). And there is no way to reconcile those differences, because they are not differences of degree. None of their explanations will rely on testable claims and reliable data.

That is why my claims about thoughts and feelings are not the same as any claims about god.

405

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

TonusOH

Halcon: Then the brain, a very physical thing with all its chemical reactions, cannot be the ultimate determiner of which metaphysical phenomena is real or not.

I agree, but that isn't the point I was making. I am saying that, if thoughts and feelings are metaphysical, then the only source of metaphysics that we have been able to confirm is the brain. If there are other sources of metaphysics, we would need to identify them, and this would need to be corroborated. By definition, this cannot be done. Until we can confirm those other sources, the only one we can be sure of is the brain and the rest are conjecture.

Halcon: Good questions, if the brain can't, who or what makes the ultimate decision on wether something like desire, longing, melancholy is actually real?

Those would be emotions, which can be described as states of mind. Humans share many of these to such an extent that we can categorize them and recognize them in ourselves and others. I don't know about an ultimate decision, but it would be difficult to find people who do not experience these feelings in the same fashion.

Gods, on the other hand, do not share this consistency of experience and description. Across societies and nations, people can agree on how it feels to be happy or sad. Even animals seem to express these in a very consistent and similar fashion. Not so with deities. What might the difference be?

405

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

TonusOH

Halcon: Because now we are legitimizing all metaphysical phenomena since it comes from the physical brain.

I'm not sure if legitimizing is the right word. If the human brain is the source of all of our gods and related beings and worlds, that wouldn't necessarily make them real. Considering the number of such beings and concepts we have developed over human history, it's clear that (nearly?) all of them are make-believe. The question would be, are there any that are real? How would we confirm that, if we have defined them in such a way to make it impossible to do so?

27

JWhub

by Mikejw in

i’m an elder who is pima, i’m amazed how much info is available to all elders.

you can see all private details of every member of the congregation.

i wonder how these sisters feel about their private details being available to these creepy elders?.

TonusOH

Atlantis has fallen very ill recently, there was a topic about it.

405

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

TonusOH

Halcon: Interesting...so the simple thought of something makes that which we are thinking of physical?...

No. Thoughts and feelings are the product of a physical object (the brain). Thoughts and feelings, themselves, are not physical things. I suppose we could identify them as metaphysical, but that requires us to get into a discussion on semantics. Is pain physical, or metaphysical? We quickly start having to draw some very fine lines.

Of course, we could just define thoughts and feelings as metaphysical, for the sake of argument. This would allow us to demonstrate the problem with the metaphysical: how to we determine its properties, and how do we measure its magnitude?

Edit to add: one other question, if thoughts and feelings are metaphysical: we know that they are the product of physical objects, systems, and/or processes. Is there any way to demonstrate metaphysical phenomena that are not the product of the physical world? After all, if the one property of the metaphysical that we can define is that it is the product of the physical world, then that would necessarily apply to all metaphysical phenomena until shown otherwise, no?

8

YouTube advice on “Types of People to Avoid”

by LongHairGal in

jw
friends

i was doing some heavy duty binge watching on youtube.. there are lots of helpful topics including ‘how to declutter your home’, ‘things you shouldn’t tell people’ and several videos on ‘types of people you shouldn’t have in your life as well as types of behavior you shouldn’t tolerate’ (especially after a certain age).. what i got out of it (most i already knew but was nice to see it mentioned):.. first, you should live life authentically, especially at an older age.

you should be free of other people’s opinions, judgments and expectations of you.

you should be free of this as you have accumulated enough wisdom in life to know what serves you and that other people’s opinions do not define you; you should not be guilt tripped into doing favors or being exploited (financially or time wise) by anybody manipulative or irresponsible, etc… walking away is not ‘selfishness’ but ‘self care’.. it was mentioned in all of them to remove people from your life who are critical and fall into these negative categories whether they be family or other.. (the name of jehovah’s witnesses was nowhere mentioned - but i was struck by the fact that all these negative things appear in spades in the jw religion (and probably in some other religions as well).. watching all of this just reinforced what i knew for many years: ..the best thing i did was to ‘fade’ from the religion and get out of that environment!.

TonusOH

Yes, the WTS approach turns people into judgmental and resentful busybodies. And it is not healthy to have that level of interest in another person's life unless they are someone very close to you. It is not a case of wanting those people around you to be better; it is usually a desire to gather another trophy for your wall. It can be a very stressful environment.

I think that, in addition to getting to know yourself better, time and age let you understand the people around you better. You learn to identify attempts at manipulation and the kinds of people who try to manipulate you. You're less likely to be fooled by fakers. And --if you've taken care of yourself-- you are in a position to remove them from your life (or remove yourself from theirs, which is what I did with a lot of toxic relationships).

405

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

TonusOH

Halcon, all of those originate in the brain, a physical object. I consider them physical phenomena.