Posts by TonusOH

3121

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

He meant grifting for donations was intended to save his own life.

He's been fighting to get the numbers up for a while, because when he had almost 900 people donating he must have been making a very comfortable living. And that is before we count any other sources of income and the people paying for his travel and vacations and so on. I can only imagine how much money he was getting outside of Patreon and YouTube, and that flow of cash has probably dried up completely now. I don't recall him mentioning holidays or vacations anytime recently.

21

Oral and Anal Sex flip flop? March 2025 Announcements and Reminders

by ukpimo in

just in.

a jaw dropping announcements and reminders for elders this month.

how can you serve as an elder and believe this organization is spirit directed after reading this letter?.

TonusOH

I agree that we shouldn't use Paul as a role model, given his view that women were objects with "uses."

10

Why GB Distorts the Story of Job

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/lpwusxk8ckc?si=d4nb1ciwccql8dox.

a man, like new gb member jody jodele, dripping in wealth—$20,000 rolex, freemasonry ring, cushy life in upstate new york—pontificating about job’s suffering.

it’s a fair jab to question how someone so detached from hardship might approach a story of utter loss.

TonusOH

A point of clarification: Jehovah lectured Job because Job had expressed the expectation that God would explain to him why he had been made to suffer. When the false friends told Job that he was suffering because Jehovah was a strict and harsh god, Job disagreed. He was confident that God would explain himself at some point.

Jehovah's response to this was to remind Job that he had no right to expect such an explanation, as he was a mere human and God was, well... God. Job's defense of God was not an issue, as such praise and recognition are what Jehovah always demanded from people. Expecting him to explain himself to a human was akin to placing an obligation on him, and humans are... not the boss of him, to coin a phrase.

I suppose I should also note that the story does not state (or even imply) that Jehovah explained that Job was subjected to this treatment because of a disagreement between himself and Satan. Thus, Job's expectation of an explanation was sufficiently offensive to God that he chewed him out and left the matter at that.

3121

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

LMsA: He sounded fairly cocky about the chances for success, at one point threatening people directly who were named about seeing them in court.

I always thought that was his ego talking, and that he knew the lawsuits were a sham. But maybe he really did think something would come of it and that he could use the Croatian courts to bring his enemies to their knees. He seems deluded enough to have believed that. Now, it hangs from his neck like an albatross. And it's a self-inflicted wound, which means the only person he has to blame for it is himself (although he will never do that).

44

New GB member Judy Jedele critizing Job's "humility" while wearing $20,000 Rolex, gold cuff links, coloured suit. Incredible!

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

i swear, you can't make this shit up!

for years and years growing up in this cult, i had to constantly hear from my parents, from the stage, in the literature, about "keeping your eye simple", not being "materialistic", not "having a showy display of one's wealth.

" of course, this never seemed to apply to the wealthy business owning elduhzzzz who ran and lorded it out over the congregations, but i digress.

TonusOH

I think points 3 and 4 are the most relevant. Should they be trying to appear wealthy and sophisticated, with fancy looking watches and nice suits? Is that the example they learned from Jesus? They want brothers and sisters to dress modestly and be presentable. Shouldn't they set the example? Look nice, not wealthy.

44

New GB member Judy Jedele critizing Job's "humility" while wearing $20,000 Rolex, gold cuff links, coloured suit. Incredible!

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

i swear, you can't make this shit up!

for years and years growing up in this cult, i had to constantly hear from my parents, from the stage, in the literature, about "keeping your eye simple", not being "materialistic", not "having a showy display of one's wealth.

" of course, this never seemed to apply to the wealthy business owning elduhzzzz who ran and lorded it out over the congregations, but i digress.

TonusOH

Giving tax breaks to religious groups is one thing, but when you see these TV pastors buying mansions and personal aircraft worth millions of dollars, it's clear they are taking advantage of the system. The WTS sold billions of dollars worth of real estate. Are they free from taxes for those transactions, or are capital gains exempt?

21

Oral and Anal Sex flip flop? March 2025 Announcements and Reminders

by ukpimo in

just in.

a jaw dropping announcements and reminders for elders this month.

how can you serve as an elder and believe this organization is spirit directed after reading this letter?.

TonusOH

It's amazing how long they agonized over how to deal with something that could have been easily dealt with by minding their own business and staying out of the marital bedroom. If they really were a spirit-guided organization, you would expect that by now the spirit would have told them to stop being nosy old perverts.

21

Is Jesus a Created Being? Debate with a Pastor

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ro6q_osgkns?si=hyxualluhruwvjnb.

—colossians 1:15 from the nwt says it plain as day: “he is the image of the invisible god, the firstborn of all creation.” that’s not vague; it’s got a punch.

“firstborn” and “creation” sit side by side, and in greek, that second word is “ktisis,” which means the physical stuff—trees, stars, you name it.

TonusOH

JWs used to (still do??) get a basic list of talking points for overcoming objections or answering simple questions about the Bible. The Reasoning book compiled these by subject, giving the rank-and-file a way to respond to many different questions or objections, which gives them the confidence to 'defend' what they believe. They are also taught not to engage if the discussion becomes contentious or if they perceive that they are being preached to (ironic as that may sound).

Keep in mind that most people know about as much about their religion and texts as the average JW. I found most Christians that I encountered knew surprisingly little, so that even the surface-level preparation that I'd gotten from the WTS made me feel as if I had a wealth of knowledge compared to them. Many people are content to serve and worship without getting a more in-depth understanding of their religion. By that standard, many JWs are quite well prepared to have a short debate on almost any Bible subject.

3121

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

It doesn't surprise me in the least that he would have put the desires of his patrons ahead of his own family.

9

1 Thessalonians 5:3....Prophecy ?

by HereIam60 in

i've always had difficulty understanding how watch tower interprets 1 thessalonians 5:3 as prophetic of a future event - that the nations will unite in a (false) cry that they have achieved 'peace and security' which will signal the start of the great tribulation.

whenever i've read that passage i got the sense that it is simply stating a general principle... that when people are complacent and off-guard, thinking everything is o.k., peaceful and secure then sudden unexpected events hit them harder and they don't know what to do.

when i was first coming in (1980s) i well recall the "true peace and security" book that made a big deal about the un having declared 1986 'the international year of peace'.

TonusOH

It is like talking about famine or disease or natural disasters as signs of the end. These are things that happen frequently throughout human history, and continue to do so. The UN designated 1986 as the Year of Peace and Security. How much clearer could a sign get? And yet... nothing.

One can interpret it to mean that the end will come when it is least expected. In other words, when the nations are celebrating peace and security (ie, when they feel that things are going as well as can be hoped), that is when the end will be upon them. In other words, it's not necessarily a literal cry of "peace and security" as much as it is a sense of complacency.

The problem is, humanity has been so on edge, constantly predicting the end for centuries. It's as if we will never become complacent. So god might never get a chance to sneak up on us. The ultimate irony: our fervent desire for the end to begin might delay it forever...