Posts by TonusOH

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

TonusOH

I didn't question the JW perspective on 607/587BC when I was in, and it didn't matter to me afterward. The back-and-forth I see here is similar to what I've seen elsewhere, and I don't have the understanding or the patience to work through it. I also think it is moot.

Russell used the 1914 date to indicate the end of the world. Not the start of the end times, but -as Stephen Lett might say- the end of the end times. I think that his belief was that Christ's heavenly reign had begun in 1799 or 1874, and that 1914 was when everything would be complete and the new system was to begin.

It took some time for Rutherford to update the teaching, so that 1914 was given new relevance. It was still a useful date, since WW1 had begun that year and it could be used as evidence that Russell was on to something. The date could also be used to keep the pressure on through the use of the 'generation' teaching. Now, it is more problematic than useful, and I don't see that the issue about the dates will matter much longer. I even wonder if, at some point in the not-too-distant future, the WTS will accept the 587/586 date and pretend that the debate never happened.

9

WHAT DO Jehovah's Witnesses believe?

by Vanderhoven7 in

please add or correct the following written by helge kare fauskanger.

"for starters, imagine a distinctly insular form of protestant fundamentalism minus the trinity (god and jesus are held to be separate beings, and the holy spirit is god's active power rather than a person).

note: since the witnesses want to think of their faith as something absolutely unique, they themselves will not agree that they are either protestant or fundamentalist.. * very important to call god by his proper name of jehovah, and as noted, you must not get him mixed up with jesus.

TonusOH

Wasn't there a moment in the gospels where Jesus organized the disciples in groups of two and sent them out in what could be described as door-to-door service? The part where he said they should stay in those homes where they were welcome, but kick the dust from their sandals as they left those places where they were not.

I think that is what they use as the model for their door-to-door ministry.

11

I do not understand the universal issue anymore

by psyco in

to explain the universal issue we are often referring to a teacher and his/her students.. let us imagine that a teacher (god) has an hour (everlasting) class to show his students (humans and angels) how to fix a broken clock (to reign).. one student (adam) says he is able to fix it better independently, without the teacher's help (universal issue).. the teacher let him demonstrate that in front of all the others, but instead of an hour lesson he gives him only 5 minutes (death after a limited period of time) and he blocks one of the student's hands behind his back (imperfection).. if i were one of the other students watching i could think: but those were not the initial conditions the student was in when he said he could, and what would have happened leaving him more time and both hands free?.

am i crazy?.

TonusOH

psyco: To explain the universal issue we are often referring to a teacher and his/her students.

I recall that they explained it this way: a young man, living in his parents' home, decides that he can make its own rules and live as he pleases. His parents explain that, if he wishes to do so, he should also go out into the world and make it on his own. Otherwise, he is using their resources and protection while shirking any responsibilities or discipline (ie, enjoying the benefits while others pay for it).

I can see the point you are making- the parable would imply that humanity wanted to show it could rule itself just fine, but God changed the parameters. So that seems unfair. But God could just as well say that His rulership comes with specific benefits (perfection, access to long life, a world that cooperates, etc), and even without those, humanity was using His resources (including the breath of life) to govern themselves 'without' Him.

And I guess this is also a point in His favor (sort of): If He couldn't make it work while giving humanity so many advantages, what chance did they have? Of course, there is a possible alternative- God decides to work with humanity to find a sort of behavioral sweet spot. The insistence that everything was perfect as-is not only was demonstrably wrong, but kept Him from making changes that might have made for a better world.

27

A Jehovah's Witness in a relationship with a non-Jehovah's Witness

by KShelton in

my name is kevin shelton.

my wife is a jehovah's witness.

my two children are jehovah's witnesses.

TonusOH

I don't see an issue with two 13 year olds being boyfriend/girlfriend. It's the start of a long learning process for both, and as long as their parents are doing their jobs, it should be just fine.

As for a relationship with a non-JW, unfortunately that is a point they are firm on, generally. Any kind of association with non-JWs is risky, in their eyes. They use Bible verses that can imply a risk (1 Corinthians 15:33, for example), but I don't know if there are any that specifically forbid it. They're okay with the day-to-day interactions that are unavoidable (people at your job, where you shop, etc), but anything beyond that is frowned upon as a threat to your spiritual health.

11

AP NEWS - Charges put focus on Jehovah’s Witnesses’ handling of abuse

by AndersonsInfo in

https://apnews.com/article/jehovahs-witnesses-child-abuse-pennsylvania-investigation-01660ed00de1f2a02f87c0597c9ae0af?fbclid=iwar0f8whtbzsjnyzze0p3xg8t1qcprtvjh9wfe2zzryv1pnr-ospnejxri0o.

charges put focus on jehovah’s witnesses’ handling of abuse.

by mark scolforo and peter smith - yesterday.

TonusOH

Indoctrination is a very powerful thing. We've had people here explain how JWs they know have no clue that Anthony Morris is no longer a member of the GB. The only thing I knew about Ray Franz --until I left the organization-- is that he was once a GB member and then an apostate. I'm not even sure I knew that he had written a book. If you are loyal, you see everything that doesn't come from the GB as poison. You avoid it, you dismiss any mention of it, you refuse any discussion of it.

33

" Millions Now Living Will Never Die" Ray Franz Thoughts from " Crisis of C "

by flipper in

jw
friends

of course this has been hashed and re-hashed as all of you know the feb. 15th wt is re-directing jw's to read the title of rutherford's talk as " millions now living may never die.

" however in reading crisis of conscience a second time - i found it interesting to see what ray franz said about this quote.. remember he wrote this book in 1983 , so keep it in mind when reading his quotes about this " millions " quote.

on pg.

TonusOH

I guess now they would refer to the speech Rutherford gave, where he proudly proclaimed that "millions now living will get to know millions more who may never die."

21

Joined an online meeting incognito

by joey jojo in

got a link for a zoom meeting and thought id share my experience about the mid-week meeting.. guessing about 100 - 120 in cong.. 50 on zoom, only 8 with cameras on - all elderly.

watching from a detached point of view it's so obvious at how it is nothing but a glorified sales meeting, all designed to promote the org.

inspirational videos about how everyone can/ should do more to help with projects, in particular how to look after the kingdom hall, complete with bar charts showing levels of achievement to aspire to.. interestingly, tonights book study is about alcohol..

TonusOH

Do they announce the attendance from the pulpit? They used to do that when I was a regular. I wonder if they say how many are live and how many are remote.

42

Young "Elders"

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

ever since the annual meeting last october and the letter to bodies of elders stating that "exceptional young men perhaps in their early 20's could qualify for appointment as elders.." it even states this in the updated elders manual!

have any of you pimo's, pimq's, or those on here with family/friends still in hear of any young men being appointed as elders yet?

i am talking 21, 22, 23, 24 etc.

TonusOH

Beth Sarim: Imagine a young 20 year - old dude giving marital and family advice

And imagine this 20-year-old "elder" hasn't ever seen another person naked and doesn't even know how to masturbate...

14

Voting thumbs up

by peacefulpete in

is anyone else having problem giving a thumbs up?

it has been happening for a long time.

i vote up , it appears, then disappears when i return to page.

TonusOH

I haven't noticed it. I was able to upvote your post, leave the topic, and return and the upvote was still there.

Unless someone else upvoted it in the meantime...

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

To say nothing of what he'd do to your xmas tree...