Posts by TonusOH

40

A Modest proposal to solve the 1914 problem

by r51785 in

throughout watchtower history dates have been a problem.

the usual solution for failed prophetic dates has been to kick the can down the road.

this needs to be done with 1914. the generation that will never pass away is now 110 years old and therefore is past its useful life span.

TonusOH

Welcome back, scholar. If I'd known you were going to return, I would have stocked up on popcorn!

40

A Modest proposal to solve the 1914 problem

by r51785 in

throughout watchtower history dates have been a problem.

the usual solution for failed prophetic dates has been to kick the can down the road.

this needs to be done with 1914. the generation that will never pass away is now 110 years old and therefore is past its useful life span.

There is always enough flexibility in interpretation to come up with a new explanation for why they are the FD&S that dismisses the 1919 teaching (which itself required quite a lot of flexibility in interpretation!).

I get the feeling that they're running up against a wall, since they are continuing to change what were/are core teachings of the organization. But when you look at those teachings, they were pretty far out there to begin with, and I don't think the rank and file know enough about them anymore. So they can probably change them and it will have relatively little impact, even though it should be a huge deal. If they could slip that overlapping generations nonsense past them, what else can they get away with?

44

2023 Yearly Report UNDER the Microscope

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/pi7sn2rnrke?si=lnvklqct6nuayv2q.

branches of jehovah’s witnesses: 85 (= down one from 86 from the previous year and quite possibly they are referring to the hong kong bethel that closed down recently).

number of lands reporting: 239 ( =the same as 2022).

TonusOH

I think TheOldHippie is saying that you could rightly say that you earned one million dollars over that time. Someone else might ask "if you really earned a million dollars, why isn't it in your bank account?" Well, you spent that money. But you also did earn it.

If the WTS's numbers improved by 1% after accounting for a 3% loss, then we can say that they gained 4% but lost 3%. The 1% is a net gain. This makes me very curious to see how the numbers change over the next few years, because it will show them whether the doctrine/policy changes worked or not. Will they be able to slow the number who leave each year? Will they be able to improve on the growth percentages?

41

Geoffrey Jackson goatiegate Part 2

by Tahoe in

from ske graduation this past weekend.

(sent from a pimi).

from ske on zoom: .

TonusOH

That goatee is the crime! *rimshot*

I kid, it actually looks pretty good. I bet Jackson wishes he'd been able to wear one for many years before now.

33

Hotels for convention

by ElderBerry in

a department in bethel wants to try to make money from regional conventions by asking local hotels if they will give a special rate and a coupon code to give to jws.. .

they should just keep it simple and not be greedy for dishonest gain.. .

this year some convention sites the hotels said no thank you i think the jws are going to book with us anyway.

TonusOH

We never did a hotel stay. But I can remember that there was emphasis on making sure to use the WTS rates and stay only at the hotels that had made deals with WTS. The idea was that area hotels would not offer the deals if they knew that individual JWs would pay the going rate. So a "good JW" would only stay at the hotels that reached a deal with the WTS.

I don't know how that worked out. The only horror stories we ever heard were the 'approved' ones, designed to show why it was important to follow the WTS's lead.

22

The Meaning of ETC

by titch in

folks: i don't mean to be a "forum grammar policeman", but there is something that i've noticed a few times.

i've noticed that a few---not all---but some, members of the forum who use the abbreviation "ect" when they want to use the abbreviation of "etc.

" for your education today, the term "etc" is the abbreviation for the latin term "et cetera.

TonusOH

I find myself making a lot of typos as I get older. I read and re-read my posts to fix as many errors as I can, but some will get through. It's almost as bad as typing a message with auto-correct on an iPhone.

22

General Amnesty For Disfellowshipped

by NotFormer in

future gb: "please come back!

all is forgiven!".

would it work?

TonusOH

It would work to at least a small extent, since there are DF'ed JWs that would like to return, or who miss their JW family and friends. But if the policy itself is not removed, then amnesty could be a disaster. How many people would return and rejoice, only to be DF again soon after? At some point it becomes a parody of itself.

3144

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

I'm imagining a JW looking for answers in 2024 and finding Evans's channel. They have heard good things and apparently he is the "go to channel" for exJW content. Cool! Let's see what we have...

Hmmm, atheist video trashing religion. No thanks.

Hmmm, ranting about the Silvio Mob and asking for money? Maybe not yet.

What else? Using psychoactive drugs to combat depression? Um... what?

How about... how to negotiate with a sex worker when your funds are low? WTF!?!?

Jesus... where is the JW content???

14

Essential Beliefs

by LeeMerk in

if the watchtower really wants to move more mainstream they need to take a lesson from evangelicals in the united states.

they seem to say there are "essential beliefs".

a handful of core beliefs that are necessary to be considered true christians.

TonusOH

Isn't there one essential belief for Christians? Jesus offered up a sacrifice on behalf of humanity so as to redeem any who accept it. Everything else is up for debate, more or less.

The problem with the WTS's approach is that they have chosen so many odd hills to die on, with the blood policy as a good example. Their interpretation has not stood the test of time, and they have modified it until it serves only as a way to express unquestioning devotion to the GB. The fact that it has cost lives does not seem to bother the leadership.

73

Did God know adam and eve would sin?

by gavindlt in

to all those on this forum, i would love to know what your take on this vital question is..

TonusOH

The future could be undetermined and god could still predict the future. He is able to control the minds of people and control events with complete precision. If god says that 'one day, X will happen' he can direct events so as to make X happen. Yes, that interferes with free will, but an unstoppable cosmic power probably doesn't give a rat's ass that you're upset that he made a woman name her child "Jesus" instead of "Bruno."

Presto: you have a universe where things can happen that god does not predict, but where god makes predictions that come true. If god could read a timeline and tell us what will happen, doesn't that mean he is subservient to that same timeline? In which case, there is something more powerful than god out there. Here's a thought experiment: could god create a reality where the timeline is fixed so that even he cannot act freely?

Bribie: If there is no God then the complexity and tremendous diversity of life on our unique planet does not make sense.

The thing is, no engineer considers complexity to be the hallmark of good design. A good design is simple and efficient, and life on Earth is nothing like that. If there is a god, he's not a very intelligent designer.

But also, if we use complexity to justify god's existence, then we have to account for a being who is far more complex than anything we've discovered or even imagined. Doesn't that make even less sense?