Posts by TonusOH

3138

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

Why Bother?

by LostintheFog1999 in

we who actually look at wt history know that they just changed 1874 to 1914 without a fanfare.

setting up the potential for changing any dates to new dates because "holy spirit" told them to do so.. which makes me ask, why do we bother to watch what they do?

i mean, we don't care having escaped their greedy little claws.

TonusOH

I don't do it to awaken others, though it would be nice if that happens. It's just a way to deal with it along with others who also got out. Turns out I wasn't crazy, after all.

7

6 billion people to bury who rejected Witnesses

by Witness 007 in

so i guess the "paradise" earth is going to be stinky to the point of vomiting with 6 billion dead bodies of not witnesess.

how long would it take to bury these people?

maybe 2 years.

TonusOH

It will give them something to do when they are not busy praising Jehovah for being so loving, kind, merciful, and generous.

6

The Prophetic Days in Daniel Fulfilled

by EisMe in

“this will be the final topic i post.

the structured fulfillment of prophecy has now been made undeniably clear, and after completing one final task—the letter to the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses—i will take my rest.

the truth has been presented, the timeline confirmed, and all that remains is the culmination of prophecy itself.” estephan leuese.

TonusOH

EisMe: This will be the final topic I post.

One can only hope.

67

back when the dinosaur soft tissue story was broken in 2005, i predicted that that many more soft tissues would be found and that it wouldn't matter if it was supposedly "65 million" years old or "165 million" years old.

the prediction has proven true and dinosaur soft tissue is routinely now found regardless of supposed age.

this is easy to predict using a literal reading of genesis and accepting it as history.... .

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: No, it is not. He says: "materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door ".

He is saying that science can only test and experiment on the material world, thus there is no place for the supernatural in science. Creationists agree with this, given how often they admit that science is limited to the material/natural world. So I don't see where the issue is. This is like 'limiting' yourself from jumping off a cliff.

Sea Breeze: Creations believe we must be rational, truthful l & anchored in logic.

...unless what they learn or discover is in conflict with their presupposed beliefs, in which case they must adhere to the presupposed beliefs, no matter how untrue or irrational or illogical they are. The materialist simply rejects those presuppositions, which is a much more rational and logical approach. After all, if presuppositions could be verified, they stop being presuppositions.

67

Dinosaur Soft Tissue

by Sea Breeze in

back when the dinosaur soft tissue story was broken in 2005, i predicted that that many more soft tissues would be found and that it wouldn't matter if it was supposedly "65 million" years old or "165 million" years old.

the prediction has proven true and dinosaur soft tissue is routinely now found regardless of supposed age.

this is easy to predict using a literal reading of genesis and accepting it as history.... .

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: Keep in mind that materialism is an ideology that competes with God

This is what Lewontin was referring to. The theist presupposes god, then demands that science put this presupposition on the same level as the things that science is able to observe and test. You have it backwards: God is an invention designed to compete with scientific discovery and advancement.

YECs are constantly making claims about science that they clearly don't know enough about (or are deliberately lying about, for the small handful who understand the science). The researchers you quote are willing to admit that their theories may need to be changed. They still need to study these images and make sure they understand what they are seeing, precisely because they do not have presuppositions to defend.

And, again, this would affect their theories on galaxy formation, not on the age of the universe.

Sea Breeze: For everyone else with a free and clear mind, these images look JUST LIKE human footprints.

No, really. They look like cartoon footprints. Compare them to actual human footprints and the difference is so stark you'll wonder how anyone could fall for it. YECs fall for it because they want for it to be true. If they treated these finds the way scientists do, they'd recognize them as either fake or misidentified. I guess you can describe them as "chained to an ideology."

67

Dinosaur Soft Tissue

by Sea Breeze in

back when the dinosaur soft tissue story was broken in 2005, i predicted that that many more soft tissues would be found and that it wouldn't matter if it was supposedly "65 million" years old or "165 million" years old.

the prediction has proven true and dinosaur soft tissue is routinely now found regardless of supposed age.

this is easy to predict using a literal reading of genesis and accepting it as history.... .

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: They don't have a theory.

Has the Big Bang theory been rejected by cosmologists? That would be news.

Sea Breeze: The fact of the matter is that they were expecting to find a young still-forming universe at the dawn of time and they found one identical to the one we have now - fully formed, from the beginning - like the bible says.

Wow, no. That's not what they are saying. They are saying that galaxies may have formed earlier (and therefore, faster) than they thought. They have not changed their estimates of the age of the universe, and they definitely haven't found evidence that there was no expansion or that the universe popped into existence as it is today.

As for the Lewontin quote, what is the issue? No one needs to be convinced that the material world exists and can be studied, but there is no reliable guide to the supernatural. We cannot reliably test the supernatural; we cannot even demonstrate that it exists. One of the ways we advance in our understanding of the universe is to accept that some things that seem impossible are, indeed, possible. But they must be grounded in what we can actually test. This shouldn't even be controversial.

Sea Breeze: I'm not ready to accept bondage of another form so quickly after leaving cult with similar rules for thinking!

You are getting your information from sites and individuals who literally take a pledge to reject anything that doesn't fit with their dogma and who criticize people who are actually willing to acknowledge and correct their mistakes.

Sea Breeze: It is fascinating to me to watch you try and maneuver within your assigned constraints and claim that it's not about the evidence, but only about how people you agree with interpret that evidence.

You misunderstand. Whether I agree with them or not is immaterial. What matters is what people who know what they are talking about are saying about the science in question. It is the YEC supporters who have set themselves a specific restriction that gets in the way of accepting settled science. YEC websites eagerly accept scientific consensus when it doesn't contradict their mythology, but want to disparage it when it's convenient to them. They cannot have it both ways.

67

Dinosaur Soft Tissue

by Sea Breeze in

back when the dinosaur soft tissue story was broken in 2005, i predicted that that many more soft tissues would be found and that it wouldn't matter if it was supposedly "65 million" years old or "165 million" years old.

the prediction has proven true and dinosaur soft tissue is routinely now found regardless of supposed age.

this is easy to predict using a literal reading of genesis and accepting it as history.... .

TonusOH

Folding Ideas did a video on a site where human and dinosaur footprints were said to be found:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UDXdqqJQPE

One thing that stands out about all of the fossilized footprints that have been found, is how unlike human footprints they seem. I mean, how difficult would it be to make your own footprint in mud to see what they are supposed to look like? But, no, they are these funny rounded rectangles with equally-spaced toes, where only the big toe is sized/shaped differently.

I still would ask what the experts in the relevant fields are saying, but the human footprints have always been good for a chuckle. Not only do they not look like real human footprints, they don't appear to belong to any sort of primate or other animal we have discovered. Maybe Bigfoot was real?

Edit to Add: Your other link seems to confirm my previous post-- scientists think they will have to revise some of their theories on galaxy formation, but they don't say a word about the age of the universe. These discoveries are great for science, but they are not leading us to a young universe.

67

Dinosaur Soft Tissue

by Sea Breeze in

back when the dinosaur soft tissue story was broken in 2005, i predicted that that many more soft tissues would be found and that it wouldn't matter if it was supposedly "65 million" years old or "165 million" years old.

the prediction has proven true and dinosaur soft tissue is routinely now found regardless of supposed age.

this is easy to predict using a literal reading of genesis and accepting it as history.... .

TonusOH

So, they are claiming that the universe is young? What are the new estimates for the age of the universe?

It sounds like they are admitting that they need to update or change their theories about galaxy formation, specifically in the early stages of the universe after the big bang. I don't see where they are saying that this indicates a shorter timescale. There could well be whole new avenues of discovery and learning as a result of this new information. But I'm not seeing where it leads us to a young universe.

19

What was really going on with Abel? Does anyone find the story of Cain and Abel screwed up.

by liam in

ever wonder about the story of cain and abel?

why did jehovah like abel's sacrifice more than cain's?

maybe there's a subtle reason why jehovah likes animal sacrifices.

TonusOH

The story of Cain and Abel is also very brief and lacking in details. From their birth to Abels' death is only eight verses in Genesis.

The story does not give any clue as to why God rejected Cain's offering. It seems as if the story is more about Cain's reaction to the result. It sounds more like a cautionary tale about jealousy. I'm not sure if there is any meaning to the way the story assumes that the world was already well-populated with at least one established city. It would indicate that Cain and Abel had lived quite a long time before they offered up these sacrifices and before Abel was murdered. Cain only took a wife after this happened. It has all the hallmarks of a fable.