Posts by jp1692

23

The beard issue

by Ray Frankz in

this is my second topic here.

sorry for this biiig post.

i would like to tell you guys about one of the things that bothered me most, despite of being something quite simple, but since it affected me directly, so.... well, being a ministerial servant, i knew the bad view the jw in general have towards beards.

jp1692

Just recently I met an ex-Bethelite who had been at the Bethel in Selters, Germany.

He told me that there was a storage room where they kept alcohol for the Bethelites. All Bethelites were explicitly forbidden from telling anyone that came for a tour of the facilities about this secret stash of booze. He added that this was one of the things that really bothered him when he was there and got him to question the religion. (Note that it wasn't that they HAD alcohol, it was that they were to be secretive about it to visitors. The hypocrisy and the putting on of a false image were what bothered his conscience).

17

Hello from Illinois

by Rob206 in

jw
friends

i come from a catholic background, but most recently had been with the churches of christ.

i have contacted my local congregation and will be talking with someone tomorrow, hopefully setting a study up for next week.

i want to study scripture, but also want to immerse myself in everything jw publishes.

jp1692

Hi Rob, I greatly appreciate your comment, "The more I learn the better." Just remember that the purpose of education is to learn how to think, not what to think.

So why would you want to "study" with Jehovah's Witnesses. They are a high-control, authoritarian group that uses undue influence and coercion to control and manipulate their members. All Watchtower publications are designed to indoctrinate readers into unquestioning acceptance of their peculiar beliefs.

They demand extreme obedience to the group even over family relationships. You should avoid this group, as well as any and all others that exhibit cult-like behaviors.

23

The beard issue

by Ray Frankz in

this is my second topic here.

sorry for this biiig post.

i would like to tell you guys about one of the things that bothered me most, despite of being something quite simple, but since it affected me directly, so.... well, being a ministerial servant, i knew the bad view the jw in general have towards beards.

jp1692

This is a cult. Doctrines actually do not matter (which is why they can change at any time). Control does.

You have discovered the line between EXPLICIT rules and the IMPLICIT ones by having a beard and writing letters about it to the elders. You have implicitly shown that you think that you know more than they do. But again, it is NOT about knowledge, facts, doctrines or truth.

It is about control. Authority and control.

It's a cult.

94

Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

by Brokeback Watchtower in

he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

jp1692

“Many forms of Government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.” - Winston Churchill

85

Are you a Christian Who Accepts Evolution?

by cofty in

if you identify as a christian but you have accepted that the diversity of life - including humans - resulted from a process of biological evolution could you add your name please?.

just to be clear i am referring to the fact that our physical lineage could literally be traced back all the way to non-human species.. if you like maybe you could comment on why you see not conflict between evolution and your christian faith.. there is a tendency to conflate evolution with atheism.

it would be good to show that this is not the case..

jp1692

Also, the fact that some scientists disagree with details about how evolution may have occurred in no way means they are in disagreement about whether or not it did occur.

This can be a difficult concept for ex-cult members to wrap their head around as they are used to black-and-white, all-or-nothing answers handed down with absolute, unquestioned certainty and the kind of unity which exists only in cults. For example, JWs all "believe" that "the generation" Jesus spoke about is actually an "overlapping generation." There is no room for disagreement or questioning. To do so is to show disunity and apostatize. For true believers, any signs of disagreement are indicative of not having "the truth." So when they see, or hear, rumors that scientists are not in absolute agreement about how things work or how evolution happened, they mistakenly jump to the illogical conclusion that it didn't happen.

This of course is NOT how science works. Disagreements and discourse are signs of a healthy way of moving forward in our understanding of how things are and how they work.

Blind, unquestioning "unity" is evidence you're in a cult.

For anyone wanting to get a better idea of how science really works, I suggest you read Thomas Kuhn's landmark work: The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.

It's fairly accessible even for non-scientists as he examines how science has progressed over the centuries, abandoning incorrect understandings of our world and replacing them with better explanations. (One example is how Copernicus and later Galileo used then well known astronomical evidence to replace the problematic Ptolemaic geocentric explanation of "the universe" with a more accurate heliocentric model of our solar system).

One of my favorite parts of the book is when Kuhn examines the difficulty scientists can face when they have undeniable evidence that their current working model/explanation for a particular phenomenon has flaws, but they don't have a better hypothesis to replace it. The social dynamics of a scientific community can have striking similarities to a religious one when reality clashes with beliefs. The difference is that in a scientific community: questions are welcome, differing ideas and explanations are encouraged and progress is made by crafting explanations that fit the evidence and facts.

We all know (too well) what cults do in comparison: continue to try to force "the facts" to fit existing beliefs.

85

Are you a Christian Who Accepts Evolution?

by cofty in

if you identify as a christian but you have accepted that the diversity of life - including humans - resulted from a process of biological evolution could you add your name please?.

just to be clear i am referring to the fact that our physical lineage could literally be traced back all the way to non-human species.. if you like maybe you could comment on why you see not conflict between evolution and your christian faith.. there is a tendency to conflate evolution with atheism.

it would be good to show that this is not the case..

jp1692

Ruby456: evolution and its being taken over radical atheists.

WTF?!? That's like saying: "Radical buddhists are taking over photosynthesis."

24

Latest son of thunder video on YouTube and the 07 letter to the elders.

by Crazyguy in

in his video he mentions an elders letter sent to germany in 07 , i believe.

in this letter if i'm understanding it correctly the elders are being instructed to send most of any information on hand about child abuse in their congregation to headquarters and any thing else they have at home or in their personal possession to destroy it.

this seams to be the most obvious case of wt telling their elders to destroy information.

jp1692

CG: on the first page of this thread, Wizzstick posted a video nine hours ago saying she/he thought that might be the video you were referring to in your OP. Is it?

While we are on the subject of letters to "all bodies of elders," did you read the October 1, 2012 letter I linked on the previous page? It will answer both of the questions you asked on your OP.

24

Latest son of thunder video on YouTube and the 07 letter to the elders.

by Crazyguy in

in his video he mentions an elders letter sent to germany in 07 , i believe.

in this letter if i'm understanding it correctly the elders are being instructed to send most of any information on hand about child abuse in their congregation to headquarters and any thing else they have at home or in their personal possession to destroy it.

this seams to be the most obvious case of wt telling their elders to destroy information.

jp1692

Crazyguy: We are not discussing "the letter," at least not the one that you claim "son of thunder" referred to in an as yet unidentified YouTube video for which you won't provide a link or even a title.

What we are discussing is the fact that you haven't provided a link to it any evidence of said "letter."

24

Latest son of thunder video on YouTube and the 07 letter to the elders.

by Crazyguy in

in his video he mentions an elders letter sent to germany in 07 , i believe.

in this letter if i'm understanding it correctly the elders are being instructed to send most of any information on hand about child abuse in their congregation to headquarters and any thing else they have at home or in their personal possession to destroy it.

this seams to be the most obvious case of wt telling their elders to destroy information.

jp1692

FYI: Here's a link to a REAL letter from the US Branch (Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses) to all bodies of elders under the direction/control of the US Branch:

October 1, 2012, TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS, Re: Child abuse

This six page letter has 26 bullet points for elders concerning what the branch wants them to do whenever an question comes up that might involve child abuse.

Notice the first one:

This letter updates the letters to all bodies of elders regarding child abuse dated March 23, 1992; February 3, 1993; August 1, 1995; March 14, 1997; July 20, 1998; May 24, 2002; April 1, 2004; June 5, 2006; and May 24, 2010. Those letters should be removed from the congregation permanent file of policy letters and be destroyed. No one should keep originals or copies of any of those letters.- [Italics in the original; bold emphasis added.]

Note the elders were instructed to destroy nine previous policy letters concerning child abuse. Nine letters covering more than eight years!

Careful readers of the entire letter will note that the elders are not instructed to call the authorities, but to "immediately call the [WTBTS's] Legal Department for legal advice" and let the anonymous person on the other end tell them what to do.

Please leave your conscience and personal integrity at the door, Brother Elder. You won't be needing either of those here.

24

Latest son of thunder video on YouTube and the 07 letter to the elders.

by Crazyguy in

in his video he mentions an elders letter sent to germany in 07 , i believe.

in this letter if i'm understanding it correctly the elders are being instructed to send most of any information on hand about child abuse in their congregation to headquarters and any thing else they have at home or in their personal possession to destroy it.

this seams to be the most obvious case of wt telling their elders to destroy information.

jp1692

Sorry John Davis, but your letter is a fake!

You almost had me, yes you did. I was on my knees praying in the general direction of the Pacific Ocean to you my new King, but then it hit me: It's a fake! Fake news. Fake, fake, fake!

Oh, you're a clever one. But you couldn't fool me.

You wanna know how I know your letter is fake? Because the real ones from the CCoJW's always say "warm Christian love" in the closing, even after talking about child sexual abuse.

You left out the "warm" part and it gave you away as an imposter.

Seriously, every time I read one of those letters when I was an elder, it always made me want to throw up a little in my mouth. It's kind of creepy the way they say that: "With this letter we send our warm Christian love and best wishes."