we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.
my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.
i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.
Ruby: as for my argument being non sequitur - you will need to explain.
It does not follow that suffering from anxiety, lacking self esteem or being aggressive would in any way indicate a person's level of commitment to a group, their love for others or their love for god.
I fail to see any kind of correlation between any of the first three items on your list and the last three, let alone any hint of a causal relationship.
i left the organization.
my awakening was this month of july, the first week of july.
i couldn't answer my own questions about the organization or the doctrines, i couldn't understand the prophecies, i couldn't figure quite well what i was feeling.
Welcome to the rest, and the best, of your life!
we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.
my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.
i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.
@Ruby, I am reposting this because you have not responded and or addressed this:
Ruby: people with mental health issues are treated like free riders and are given a hard time because they cannot keep up and indeed Scott Atran 2002 who cites Iannaccone's paper argues that because such religions have no place for those who cannot perform to their demandingly strict standards they leave and this is why there are high turnover rates amongst such religions.
Also, I did a keyword search of the Iannaccone paper you referenced using the terms: mental and health.
Neither of those words appear once in that paper. Could you please
provide a specific quote with a proper citation to support your claims?
Thanks!
JP
we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.
my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.
i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.
Ruby: mental health includes such things as anxiety, self esteem and aggression and these are the things that are measured in social science and psychiatry to indicate mental illness. do you agree?
Mostly.
Ruby: such things would affect participation - do you agree?
Yes. Mentally ill people are often MORE active in a religion or other type of cult. They are frequently the most zealous of the zealots as they try to prove their level of devotion and commitment.
Ruby: such things as anxiety, lack of self esteem and aggression would be indicators to other members of the group of the level of commitment, love for others and love for god etc. Do you agree?
No. I do not at all agree with this. I think your conclusion here is completely non sequitur. Both my research and personal experience provide ample evidence to the contrary in a wide variety of cult and cult-like settings, JW and otherwise.
we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.
my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.
i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.
Ruby: for Atran see chapter 6 Ritual and Revelation - the Emotional Mind of In God's we trust: the evolutionary landscape of religion
Thanks. I looked this book up on line and actually ordered it because it looked very interesting. It should arrive sometime today.
no doubt we are all overjoyed at how we have progressed since breaking the shackles of the society!.
for those that have been here on this forum for some time, have you ever looked back at the version of "you" that first started posting here, and compared yourself with where you are at now?.
i am overjoyed at how much i have grown as a person!.
SIAR: I am overjoyed at how much I have grown as a person!
Agreed on all counts. It's a useful exercise.
two witnesses came to my door the other day and i politely told them that i was not interested.
they told me that it was ok and that what they were handing out was not anything religious.
i told them sorry and that i was still not interested.
Liars gotta lie.
translating jwfacts into spanish has made me critically analyze pretty much everything paul has written.
i would say paul is right 90%+ of the time.
some things are just things that are outdated, on other occasions, things are partially right and just need to be tweaked.anyhow... one of the articles is "where else would i go"?since i am an atheist, ideally, for me, the answer would be "become at least agnostic, if not atheist, and lead an evidence-based life".
Ruby: This site for example - is it morphing
How so?
Can you give examples?
we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.
my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.
i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.
Ruby: I think I would have to disagree with your last two sentences too as they come across as rather fundamentalist. A disciplined environment has been found to work very well for reocvoring drug addicts and so long as they remain within those confines they do very well. there are other groups as will that do with better in more disciplined environments - at school for example.
WTF? Here are my "last two sentences":
How is either of these sentences "fundamentalist"? And what do you even mean by that?
In my last sentence, I explicitly comment on my conclusions about "Fundamentalist extremism" and its effects on individuals. It is not an ideological statement of belief.
The first of the two sentences is addressing Iannoccone's "that too much strictness causes just as much harm as too little" with which I disagree.
Finally, your comments about "a disciplined environment" and its benefits are true, but have nothing to do with fundamentalist extremism. You completely changed the subject. I think you are confusing discipline with fundamentalism and extremist ideologies. They are not the same, not at all.
we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.
my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.
i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.
Ruby: Atran was investigating how people with mental health problems fare amongst groups like Jehovhas witnesses ... Atran concluded that Jehovahs witnesses are no help to those with mental illnesses whereas mainstream religions do help with depression and well being.
Do you have a specific quote including page number to support this? Also, it would be helpful if you supplied a complete citation, or at least a link, to the source for your comments. That way, people that are interested in researching this further (me in this case) can actually find and consult the source document.
Ruby: people with mental health issues are treated like free riders and are given a hard time because they cannot keep up and indeed Scott Atran 2002 who cites Iannaccone's paper argues that because such religions have no place for those who cannot perform to their demandingly strict standards they leave and this is why there are high turnover rates amongst such religions.
Also, I did a keyword search of the Iannaccone paper you referenced using the terms: mental and health. Neither of those words appear once in that paper. Could you please provide a specific quote with a proper citation to support your claims? If you cannot or will not do that please refrain from making unfounded, unsupported assertions which only obfuscate informed discussion about this very serious issue.
Thanks!
JP
