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• 
  14

  The Prodigal Son and JW Justice

  by eyeslice in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it was towards the end of 1998 that i believe there was a watchtower article on the prodigal son.. about that time, i handled a number of problematic judicial cases and got to wondering about the rightness of elders judging others.

  before each case, elders are instructed to read certain chapters of the shepherding book, but my opinion was, they would be better re-reading the parable of the prodigal son.. lets look at some of the points from the parable and compare it with jw justice.. 1. the prodigal was never judged and condemned by his father immediately after leaving home.

  there is no indication that he would have at anytime been shunned by his father and family.

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  somebody

  Room215,,,,so true!

  I wanted to add that the father had a feast for the son who returned home. The society instructs it's follower not to as much as clap, let alone have a feast, when a df'd person is reinstated.

  peace,

  somebody
• 
  14

  The Prodigal Son and JW Justice

  by eyeslice in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it was towards the end of 1998 that i believe there was a watchtower article on the prodigal son.. about that time, i handled a number of problematic judicial cases and got to wondering about the rightness of elders judging others.

  before each case, elders are instructed to read certain chapters of the shepherding book, but my opinion was, they would be better re-reading the parable of the prodigal son.. lets look at some of the points from the parable and compare it with jw justice.. 1. the prodigal was never judged and condemned by his father immediately after leaving home.

  there is no indication that he would have at anytime been shunned by his father and family.

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  somebody

  eyeslice,

  I had the same thoughts about the whole judging system set up buy the WBTS for it's elders to follow. First of all, I don't believe the practise of disfellowshipping fellow sinners is taught by Christ. If anything, Jesus was given ALL AUTHORITY of the heavens and the earth and told us not to judge one another. he even said that not even the Father judges. The Father gave the job of judging us to his SON. Therefore, my opinion of the flock book is that the JWs human leaders printed the book to instruct it's elders on how the society wants elders to judge others by trying to read their hearts to judge wether the sinner is repentant or not. If the judging committe judges the sinner as not repentant, they condem them to disfellowshippment and are to be treated as the antichrist. I think that is a sin in itself because Jesus said not to condem each other either. One more major point to add is that the prodigal son illustration proves that the reinstedmeant process isn't scriptual either. Di the son have to write letters pleaing for forgiveness/ reinstatement to be approved? NO. He was RIGHT AWAY forgiven by his father and taken into his arms and there was even a feast in welcoming him back. He was welcomed back with open arms even though they KNEW what he was doing with his inheritance while he was gone!

  If a JW gets disfellowshipped, they can attend meetings but they aren't welcomed back. They are completely ignored as if they don't exist, until the elders give their permission for everyone to go back to showing love and mercy to the sinner by approving the written reinstatement pleas. For a disfellowshipped JW to attend meetings and put themselves through the humiliation of that kind of cruel treatment, in my opinion, that in itself should show the elders and his or her so called "friends" that they are repentent for whatever sin they commited. Why is there paperwork to be approved by elders first? Where is that procedure or "arrangement from Jehovah" as the JWs human leaders have termed it, found in scriptures?

  The whole list of what is considered to be "sins" in the flock book is amazing in itself. Seems to me that pedophiles are treated better than cigarrette smokers or adulterers.

  I have a question for you that I'd like to ask as soon as I word it right. It does involve something I read in the elders manual, but I'm not sure I'm understanding it right. I'll ask it in a new post so that I don't steer this thread off topic.

  peace,

  somebody
• 
  27

  Awake! Saved My Life!

  by Funchback in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  so said an italian man on page 31 of the 2/22/03 awake!

  magazine:.

  awake!

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  somebody

  LOL@Farkel

  Hi Funchback,

  I remember reading quite a few "from our readers" sections in the AWAKE! rags, that it saved peoples lives. One in particualar had to do with lead poisoning and how no doctors could figure out what was wrong with the child having convulsions daily.

  Here are a few of my favorite AWAKE quotes.

  3/22/98

  You must forgive me for forgetting to renew the subscription for the good magazine Awake! It is an informative, educational, and factual magazine with inspiring and awakening topics. I want all the back issues I've missed. I cannot miss even one. Thank you for patiently helping to fight ignorance.

  N. S., Sri Lanka

  8/22/87

  College Education?

  When I first read your article "College Education-A Preparation for What?" I thought to myself: 'Another put-down for a college education.' (January 8, 1987) But after careful consideration, now that I have finished college, I can truly appreciate the advice given. Although it's too late for me, I hope young people who read the article realize that a college education prepares you for absolutely nothing. I look back and regret those years of my life.

  S. B., United States

  peace,

  somebody

  Edited by - somebody on 22 January 2003 11:31:50
• 
  11

  The never ending saga.the anointed

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after reading from "the watchtower" february 15, 2003

  "by the 1930's , then, it was becoming clear that, in general,

  the heavenly class had been chosen.

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  somebody

  Hi MacHislopp....and all,

  One more quote saying that in 1958, the process of the gathering of the 144,000 "may be about complete". The evidence of this used in this article is that "we are now in the closing years of this present system of things".

  Wathtower 1958 page 464:

  When Jesus, as a conclusion to his parable, warningly says: "For there are many invited, but few chosen," this shows that many more have been called than 144,000, the number finally united with Christ Jesus in heaven. If any of the remnant now in attendance at the room for the wedding ceremonies fall out for failure to keep on the wedding garment, others will be brought in by the King to take their places. Seeing that we are now in the closing years of this present system of things, that process may be about completed.

  peace,

  somebody
• 
  6

  flash of light thread

  by zev in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at the school on thursdays and or tuesday, we were discouraged from using word wiskers.

  well ever done a search on the wt cd on the word "flash"?

  want to see word wiskers?

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  somebody

  Blinded by even more flashes of light.....

  *** re 79 14 The Magnificence of Jehovah's Celestial Throne *** 13 During the Lords day, Jehovah makes his power and presence manifest in a sublime way. No, not by literal lightning, for John is seeing signs. What, then, do the lightnings represent? Well, flashes of lightning can illuminate, but they can also strike one dead. Therefore, these lightnings issuing from Jehovahs throne well picture the flashes of enlightenment that he has continually granted his people and, even more significantly, his fiery judgment messages.Compare Psalm 18:14; 144:5, 6; Matthew 4:14-17; 24:27.

  *** re 131-2 21 Jehovah's Plagues on Christendom *** Thunderous storm warnings from the Bible pealed forth. Like flashes of lightning, brilliant beams of truth shone from Jehovahs prophetic Word, and, as if by a mighty earthquake, the religious realm was shaken to its foundations. The John class saw that there was work to be done. And to this day, that work continues to expand gloriously throughout the entire inhabited earth!Romans

  *** re 176 26 God's Sacred Secret- Its Glorious Climax! *** Thunderous storm warnings from the Bible have been sounded. Like lightning, flashes of insight as to Gods prophetic Word have been seen and publicized.

  *** km 11/95 1 Regular Meeting Attendance- Essential to Our Standing Firm *** During June and July, how stimulating it was to cover three Watchtower study articles on the flashes of light that have enlightened the path of the righteous! (Prov. 4:18)

  *** km 1/90 3 1990 "Pure Language" District Convention *** Particularly since the revival of our preaching activity in 1919, these gatherings have been marked periods of spiritual refreshment as revealed flashes of light from Gods Word have been made known.

  *** w95 5/15 10 Flashes of Light in Apostolic Times *** 2 Among the first flashes of light the early followers of Jesus Christ received were those having to do with the Messiah.

  *** w95 5/15 10-11 Flashes of Ligh t in Apostolic Times *** 3 After his resurrection, Jesus Christ gave flashes of light regarding an obligation resting on all his followers. Most likely it was to the 500 disciples assembled in Galilee that he said: Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.

  *** w95 5/15 11 Flashes of Light in Apostolic Times *** 5 Just ten days later, what brilliant flashes of light Jesus followers received! On the day of Pentecost 33 C.E., for the first time, they appreciated the significance of Joel 2:28, 29: I [Jehovah] shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will certainly prophesy.

  *** w95 5/15 12 Flashes of Light in Apostolic Times *** 10 There is no question that the Gospel of Matthew, written about 41 C.E., contains many flashes of light for the benefit of its readers. Comparatively few of the first-century Christians had personally heard Jesus expound his teachings. In particular, Matthews Gospel emphasized that the theme of Jesus preaching was the Kingdom. And how strongly Jesus had stressed the importance of having the right motive! What flashes of light there were in his Sermon on the Mount, in his parables (such as those recorded in chapter 13), and in his great prophecy in chapters 24 and 25! All of this was brought to the attention of the early Christians in Matthews Gospel account, written only some eight years after Pentecost 33 C.E.

  *** w95 5/15 13 Flashes of Light in Apostolic Times *** 13 The apostle Paul was especially used to bring flashes of truth to Christians living in apostolic times.

  *** w95 5/15 14 Flashes of Light in Apostolic Times *** 17 What flashes of light the Lord used Paul to shed on the resurrection!

  *** w95 5/15 14 Flashes of Light in Apostolic Times *** 19 By writing his letter to the Hebrews, Paul passed on flashes of light to the early Christians in Jerusalem and Judea.

  *** w95 5/15 15 Flashes of Light in Apostolic Times *** 21 Space does not permit giving more examples, such as flashes of light found in the letters of the apostle Peter and those of the disciples James and Jude.

  *** w95 5/15 15 Flashes of Light- Great and Small (Part 1) *** IT IS proof of divine wisdom that, in keeping with Proverbs 4:18, the revealing of spiritual truths has taken place gradually by means of flashes of light.

  *** w95 5/15 16 Flashes of Light- Great and Small (Part 1) *** 2 In apostolic times Jesus Christ saw fit to use supernatural means to give his followers the earliest flashes of light.

  *** w95 5/15 17 Flashes of Light- Great and Small (Part 1) *** 8 It is remarkable to see how greatly Jehovah, by means of holy spirit, favored these early Bible Students with flashes of light.

  *** w95 5/15 18 Flashes of Light- Great and Small (Part 1) *** 11 Particularly since 1919 have Jehovahs servants been blessed with increasing flashes of light. What a bright flash of light shone at the 1922 Cedar Point convention as J. F. Rutherford, the Watch Tower Societys second president, drove home the point that the prime obligation of Jehovahs servants is to advertise, advertise, advertise, the King and his kingdom! The very next year, bright light shone on the parable of the sheep and the goats.

  *** w95 5/15 20 Flashes of Light- Great and Small (Part 1) *** 17 In time, flashes of light revealed that Jehovahs chief purpose was, not the salvation of creatures, but the vindication of his sovereignty. The most important theme of the Bible was seen to be, not the ransom, but the Kingdom, for it will vindicate Jehovahs sovereignty. What a flash of light that was!

  *** w95 5/15 20 Flashes of Light- Great and Small (Part 1) *** 21 There are further examples both of great flashes of light and of those that might be considered small.

  *** w95 5/15 22 Flashes of Light- Great and Small (Part 2) *** 6 There was the question of who should serve as elders and deacons in the congregations. To get away from the hierarchical structure prevalent in Christendom, it was concluded that these should be elected democratically by the vote of the members of each congregation. But increasing light contained in The Watchtower of September 1 and of October 15, 1932, showed that the Scriptures do not provide for elective elders. So these were replaced by a service committee, and a service director was chosen by the Society.

  *** w95 5/15 22 Flashes of Light- Great and Small (Part 2) *** 7 The Watchtower of June 1 and of June 15, 1938, contained flashes of light showing that the servants in the congregation were to be, not elected, but appointed, that is, appointed theocratically.

  *** w95 5/15 23 Flashes of Light- Great and Small (Part 2) *** 9 Many flashes of light have pertained to Christian conduct. For instance, consider the matter of neutrality. A particularly bright flash of light beamed forth on this subject in the article Neutrality appearing in The Watchtower of November 1, 1939. How timely it was, coming just after the beginning of World War II!

  *** w95 5/15 26 Flashes of Light- Great and Small (Part 2) *** 20 Through the years, flashes of light both great and small have been illuminating the pathway of Jehovahs dedicated servants. This has been in fulfillment of such scriptures as Psalm 97:11 and Proverbs 4:18.

  *** w99 3/1 13 "The Temple" and "the Chieftain" Today *** 2 Since the restoration of pure worship, Jehovah has blessed his people with many flashes of spiritual insight, including the discernment of what Gods spiritual temple isJehovahs templelike arrangement for pure worship.

  Like that last one?

  One of the flashes of light that Jehovah blessed his people with is that God's spiritual temple is Jehoveah's templelike arrangement of pure worship! Why didn't I think of that! {sigh} I guess one needs to have the Wathtower's active force oprating in them.

  peace,

  somebody
• 
  84

  A tale of three sisters.........

  by Tatiana in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it started in 1956. a girl was born.

  with lovely strawberry blonde, curly hair.

  dad and mom kissing.

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  somebody

  (((((((((April and Sister))))))))))))))))

  I'm so very sorry that you had a very painful childhood life. I'm so sorry for what OLD Hippie said to you too. I hope he doesn't have any children, because he probably has no idea what the signs are when a child is crying out for help. And when a person spills her guts as you did, and letting others know that when children go the road you did, it's for a reason!!!

  I'm only guessing that Old hippie has children and they acted out it ways that you did. He probably reacted to his children with heartless sarcasm as he did to you. That is the only reason I can come up with when trying to understand his complete ignoring the REALITY of your life (and that of SO MANY JWs), and responding with a cold comment to you.

  peace to you, April. I hope with all my heart that you and your sister are doing better now.

  peace,

  gwen
• 
  37

  PROMOS FOR CANADIAN TV JW CHILD ABUSE SHOW

  by Scully in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  if you recall i posted a thread dealing with the upcoming canadian television show on the jw child abuse scandal at :.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=44236&site=3.

  i just want to pass a message along that if anyone watches cbc's "the fifth estate" on wednesday, january 22, 2003 (that's this wednesday night), they should see a promotion for the upcoming jehovah's witness child abuse show at 9:00pm, next wednesday, january 29, 2003.. the promotion should be aired at or near the end of the show - around 9:50 to 9:55 pm on january 22.

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  somebody

  Thank you ,Scully !

  Can anyone tape the show and mail it to me? Please? I'm begging.

  zev can probably put it on a cd so that I can return the tape to whoever sends me a copy if they want it back. I'll ask him when he gets home and get back to this, bringing this thread back to the top at the same time in case it gets lost between now and then.

  peace,

  somebody/gwen
• 
  25

  C of C Just Arrived

  by eyeslice in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  crisis of conscience has just been delivered by mail to my office.

  i wouldn't dare let it be delivered to home in case my wife found out.. i am still "in", so the question is, should i read it?

  and if so, are my days as a jw numbered?.

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  somebody

  I think you should read it but only after you FIRST think about and comprehend what Mary said. Brace yourself for all the emotions that will hit your heart and soul. How anyone with a conscience can view the "Society" the same after reading how they operate is beyond me.

  If you have anything else that is stressful going on in your life right now, I'd wait till that passes before reading it. Although I know that's easier said than done. Once you start reading the truth about how the organization behind the name operates, you won't be able to stop till you're finished the book completely. Ray did a wonderful job writing the truth. He told it in a very loving and caring way, as you'll see that NOTHING was easy, because of how much he truly cared for and loved 'the friends". I know that I could never have written as he did. I would have been too bitter to do so.

  My thoughts will be with you as you read and I hope you are able to relay your feelings here or to close friends while or after reading it.

  peace to you,

  somebody
• 
  3

  A big load of crap

  by somebody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if this isn't a big load of bullcrap, i don't know what is!

  4/92 kingdom ministry while the information presented in our kingdom ministry is in the form of suggestions and not rigid rules, it is still a fine source of reference material that should be a part of each congregation kingdom hall library.. .

  can you imagine what would happen to jws who have disfellowshipped and da'd family members who didn't obey the rigid rules on how to treat their family members in the august 2002 kingdom ministry?

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  somebody

  If this isn't a big load of bullcrap, I don't know what is!

  4/92 kingdom ministry

  While the information presented in Our Kingdom Ministry is in the form of suggestions and not rigid rules, it is still a fine source of reference material that should be a part of each congregation Kingdom Hall library.

  Can you imagine what would happen to JWs who have Disfellowshipped and Da'd family members who didn't obey the rigid rules on how to treat their family members in the August 2002 Kingdom Ministry? Can you imagine what would happen if an active JW ,upon sitting in front of elders and being counselled for having converstaions with their own df'd relatives, spoke up and said that there is no rigid rule against speaking greetings or talking to their df'd family member. I can just picture the elders referring the person being counseled to the August 2002 KM. Now I can picture the one being couselled referring the elders to the April 92 KM and saying that information in the KMs are only suggestions and not rigid rules. After all...thes KMs sitting in the KH libraries are for references. Sometimes references can serve as buttsavers.

  Anyone have any 'suggestions" on what the elders would come up as far as wording the "sin" that such a person would be disfellwshipped for? How would they word the "sin" on the form they send to their leaders/headquarters? This might be fun!!

  How about......disfellowshipped for ............

  "not having confidence in the suggestions presented in the Kingdom Ministry".

  For those who haven't heard the two part meeting on the "suggestions" presented in the August 2002 KM, it's here for you to listen to.

  http://hometown.aol.com/haroldev3/myhomepage/profile.html

  If you listen, take note of the reason why the "suggestions" were being studied in a two part meeting to begin with.

  peace,
  gwen

  edited for editing.

  Edited by - somebody on 15 January 2003 17:27:28
• 
  36

  A Witness Response to Our Disassociation

  by Princess in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i received this email on saturday from [email protected] .

  good job eh?

  your father pulled your mother out now u and your husband or out .

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  somebody

  Princess,

  First,,,congratulations on the freedom of your family!

  good job eh? your father pulled your mother out now u and your husband or out
  so now u all will be destroyed? lol have your present and temporary future
  fun kiddies its sad but its like of indepedent man/woman

  This person has e-mailed many of us here on the board so we all now for sure that he has been lurking here for at least a year. And I love what he said and that you shared his words with us. He doesn't realize that he helps in exposing the WBTS as a liar. What he said proves that this, from what the WT tell the public on it's media site, is just another lie to decieve the public:

  Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

  No. ................... Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another.

  What Greg said was that your family is "out" and because of that, your future will be tempory. You will be destroyed now because you are "out". And we all see that he takes pleasure in this judging of you and your family by his "lol".

  BTW....Zev and I got a kick out reading and looking at the pictures from you and your husbands last meeting! I LOVED the shirt too!

  peace to you and yours,

  somebody and zev

  P.S. I'm sorry for the quoting and bolding being messed up. I'm STILL trying to figure that stuff out!!!

  Edited by - somebody on 14 January 2003 7:50:59