It makes me wonder if the Witnesses will be going door-to-door tomorrow night to trick-or-treat for UNICEF?
Tammy
Posts by Swan
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14There is a rumour...
by caballoSentado inhi friends,.
i need confirmation about a rumour i keep hearing about in my country.
several jw's who know about the wt-un affair are saying that in usa the wt is having the elders in the congregations give a speech accepting the blame for this scandal & asking for forgiveness or something similar.
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13
Theocratic News
by No Apologies inreading the thread about declining attendance got me thinking.
what happened to theocratic news?
you remember, that little box in the km with exciting stats about countries most dubs could not find on a map.
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Swan
We had a young brother in our congregation back in the mid 70's that was being groomed for MS. He was assigned the Theocratic News and did the whole part in the style of Chevy Chase doing the Weekend Update! We young people loved it. It was the first time we every really paid any attention to the Theocratic News. He got in trouble for it though.
Tammy
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63
What did you do to piss the brothers off?
by Pleasuredome inwhen you were getting fed up with meetings before you gave up, was there anything you did to deliberately get on the brothers nerves?.
i turned up to a meeting once with jeans on, and a red top with cccp on it with the 'hammer and sickle'.
i also went to another bs group a few times so that if i wasnt at one group they'd think i was at the other and vice versa.
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Swan
I refused to take vacation time off from work to go to D'strict Convention. I didn't go Thursday and Friday; I went only on Saturday and Sunday. I also skipped the Memorial, which I had always found very stressful. I told the elders I was going to attend with my family at my brother's congregation.
I missed many many meetings, and toward the very end I didn't go to any meetings/assemblies whatsoever. Nobody missed me. But they sure thought about me a lot when I sent in my DA letter. I felt it was the honorable thing to do. I have since learned that there is no honorable way out, but for me, I felt it was.
Tammy
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8
Paducah Sun Article - J.R. Brown & Moreno
by UnDisfellowshipped ini just wanted to post some quotes from the paducah sun (kentucky) newspaper from the january 28th 2001 edition.. i would love to hear everyone's comments on this newspaper article!.
mario moreno, associate general counsel at the church's new york headquarters, said when church policy is applied to child molesters, "as a parent, an attorney and an elder, i'm comfortable with our policy.".
moreno said while he believes in the church's policy, he knows that some members have been hurt, and "my heart goes out to them.
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Swan
True Sloboy, and I am proud to be a modern day apostate!
Tammy
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Paducah Sun Article - J.R. Brown & Moreno
by UnDisfellowshipped ini just wanted to post some quotes from the paducah sun (kentucky) newspaper from the january 28th 2001 edition.. i would love to hear everyone's comments on this newspaper article!.
mario moreno, associate general counsel at the church's new york headquarters, said when church policy is applied to child molesters, "as a parent, an attorney and an elder, i'm comfortable with our policy.".
moreno said while he believes in the church's policy, he knows that some members have been hurt, and "my heart goes out to them.
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Swan
I see this article as being a fine example of WTBTS double-talk, spin, and finger-pointing. Lets start with this one:
Moreno said while he believes in the church's policy, he knows that some members have been hurt, and "my heart goes out to them." But he said that some elders don't follow the policy as they should, and that's where trouble begins.
If they've been hurt, why can't you help them? Why don't you try? Why do you hurt them more by shunning many of them? And what about those naughty elders? All this trouble is caused by them, not the policy. Baaaaaaad elders! Now they are the scapegoats. It's not the WTBTS at fault. Only an idiot would remain an elder after reading this.
The legal department will then advise the elders what is required by law. Twenty-two states, including Illinois and the District of Columbia, do not require clergy to report accusations of child abuse. In those states, Moreno said, the legal department generally advises the elders not to report the matter to law enforcement authorities.
If you are a state legislator in one of these states, then get off your duff and get this law passed, because that's the only way to protect child abuse victims from the JW policy. If you don't, they will only circumvent your authorities; i.e. your police, children's services department, courts, etc.
He said there are then three factors considered: protecting the child, complying with the law, and protecting minister-adherent confidentiality, with the last receiving the least weight.
You can be sure they're going to take what action is necessary to see that the child is protected."
Both Brown and Moreno said that the elders, who volunteer and are essentially untrained clergy, might err in their application of a policy both believe puts protecting children first.
"It's a matter of trying to balance confidentiality and protecting the child," Brown said.
Okay, so which is it? What is their priority this minute? Is it protecting the child or the confidentiality? If confidentiality has the least weight, then why are you now talking about balancing it with the protection of the child?
Brown said the church does not necessarily equate reporting the matter to law enforcement to protecting the child because "not all the time does government authority provide the protection the child needs. We don't say automatically that, but unfortunately too many reports show that's the case.
Huh? Now it's the fault of government because they don't succeed in protecting the child 100% of the time. Baaaaaaad government! Now it is the scapegoat. BTW, Mr. Brown, do you have any statistics to show that your policy succeeds 100% of the time. 50%? 25%?
"It's not always easy. Have mistakes been made? Very likely, they have. We're trying to see that everyone is educated to what needs to be done to see that innocent children are not victimized."
Oh, so you're not perfect either? Your success rate isn't 100%? So then we could also say the same thing about the WTBTS...
not all the time does the WTBTS provide the protection the child needs. We don't say automatically that, but unfortunately too many reports show that's the case.
Maybe we should compare success rates and then choose WTBTS or Child Protective Services/Police.
Moreno agrees with Bowen's claim that no investigation is initiated in the church if there is only one witness and the accused denies the charge, but he said elders have the responsibility to watch the accused more closely. He added that elders sometimes advise the accused to not put himself or herself in suspicious situations.
You know what, jails work really well for that. Why don't you call the real police and let them watch the accused more closely behind bars and away from children? Then he can have his attorney advise him about his suspicious situation.
He also said that when members are disfellowshipped, the congregation is told but no reason is given in order to protect confidentiality. When asked if the parents of the victim would be allowed to tell fellow congregates why a member is disfellowshipped, Moreno replied, "That would be their choice. We don't tell them that, but it would be their choice. Is that encouraged? No."
Why didn't he finish this thought? Shouldn't he have added, "But if they make the wrong choice and tell others, then we will disfellowship them for causing divisions in the congregation."
Moreno said he believes that while some of the church's critics on this topic have legitimate concerns, most "have a problem with pride" and "want the organization to change for them. We go by what we believe the Bible says, and we don't change for anybody."
Baaaaaaad apostates! They are the scapegoats now. We don't change for anybody because everybody else is at fault.
He also said he feels the church is "being picked on" and added that he would be willing to put the church's policy up against any other.
Waaaaaaa! We're being picked on! Waaaaaaa! Maybe they feel paranoid because they ran out of people to blame. Okay Mr. Brown, let's look at your database and compare notes.
This whole article just made me sick. Thanks for letting me vent.
Tammy
Edited by - Swan on 22 October 2002 12:50:29
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Experience With An Interveiwer
by ColdRedRain intoday, i saw a job lead in an job listing paper.
it was a travelling salesmen job.
i thought to myself "hell, i might as well put some of the skills i learned as a member of the borg to use.
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Swan
A red flag went up. I later found out that this guy's a JW. He explained the job to me. I was to travel from city to city selling magazines. (I told myself "Hey, I can go from town to town meeting new girls while making money." Typical male ideas and behaviors.) And then he told me I probably left because I wanted to do what I wanted to do, and how the troof saved him. (Anybody associated with the 2 by 2's will tell you how they use the same tactics to get members back.) and how I should come back before armageddon, and how that job may not be for me because most of his employees also bring girls to their hotels, and they smoke pot in the hotel rooms. I just sat there and pretended to listen to him, just because I wanted to take the job up in the near future
I don't know where you live, but where I live it is inappropriate and unlawful for a person hiring a potential employee to behave as this person did. If you don't get the job, you have a strong case of discrimination on the basis of religion here.
Tammy
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9
Depression & Guilty Feelings
by Swan ini haven't been posting much lately.
i am sorry i haven't been contributing.
have been experiencing some depression lately.
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Swan
I haven't been posting much lately. I am sorry I haven't been contributing. I
have been experiencing some depression lately. My doctor prescribed some new
medication the other day to help me sleep, but so far it just makes me terribly
drowsy in the morning and prone to oversleeping. I was late for work this
morning by an hour.
My doctor feels that I should be adjusting to my niece's death more quickly
than I have been. I have been going to my counselor, but we don't really talk
about this any more.
I miss my niece so much. It really hurts to think that for over 8 years I was
never allowed to see her, and now I never will. I remember when I last saw her.
She was only 10 years old and so disappointed because she knew that I would
soon be DF/DA. I could only hope that what I was doing was the right thing and
that she and her family would be able to join me on the outside.
I can't help thinking that if I hadn't left the JWs, maybe she would still be
alive today. If I hadn't left, would her family have moved from Oregon to
Indiana? Maybe not. Maybe it was to get away from me and the bad memories that
they moved. If I hadn't DAed myself, maybe they would have had more ties to the
area, financial assistance from me to help them, and stronger reasons not to
leave. If they hadn't moved to Indiana, my niece wouldn't have been at that
dangerous intersection that day almost 2 months ago.
Is it all my fault? My rational mind tells me that what I did had little to do
with what they did. But another part of me wonders if I set off a chain of
events that led to my niece's early demise. Am I being punished by some sort of
bad karma, the vengeful tribal god of the ancient Israelites, or malignant
thoughts of the cult members left behind? Again, rational reason tells me I am
thinking nonsense. My inner mind, however, is plagued with guilt and despair. I
will never again see my 18 year old niece, and yet I see her every day in my
mind; as a baby, as a toddler, as a young girl. I even see her at night in my
dreams/nightmares.
"Did I do that?" we used to mimic Steve Urkel when she was a child. "Did I do
that?" I wonder now years later.
I'm so sorry Krystal for how things worked out. I'm sorry for the pain you felt
because we were both raised in a religious cult and I left. I was hoping some
day you would leave too, and that I would be there to help you. I still believe
what I did was right, at least with my rational mind. My feelings are torn.
Another part of my mind developed from years of cult ideas and much less prone
to critical thinking tell me I am at fault. If I am, I am so terribly sorry. I
still love you and feel that special bond that a person feels for the children
of a sibling. It is almost the same protective feelings that a parent has. Had
things worked out differently, I would have gladly raised you as my own. I
would have been there for you and my love would have been, and still is,
unconditional. I would never have shunned you or turned you away. If I could, I
would give my life so that you would have yours.
There is no way to bring her back, I know. The best thing I can do is be there
for her brothers, sister, and cousins if they need me. It is my sincere hope
that they will need me and that they will contact me if they ever want to leave
the cult.
Thanks for listening. I appreciate using this forum to express my thoughts, my
feelings, and to heal.Tammy
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The Caffeine Double-Standard
by CaptainSchmideo inreading an earlier post about the caffeine "intervention" reminded me of this: remember lynn newton's online glossary of "theocratese"?
i remember this entry under "coffee" coffeestimulating hot black liquid, consumed in great quantity by most hard-working christians in the usa; the drug of choice for most any occasion.
one co calls it ``the elixer of life''.
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Swan
Back in the 70's articles in the WT came out linking tobacco / nicotine to the druggery practiced by members of the occult (the pharmakia argument). They banned smoking/chewing tobacco, making it a disfellowshipping offense. The same rule applied to betel nuts, which are common in many places of the third world.
Yet they said nothing about coffee and caffiene, which is clearly a drug too.
For years I kept expecting them to lower the boom on coffee drinking, but it never happened. It seemed to me that the whole argument was rather flimsy to begin with, but why some drugs were selected and not all seemed funny to me. Then I realized that it was probably because many JWs only had a few outlets for allowable vices (coffee, food, alcohol) and if you took coffee away, there would probably be a big rebellion. They probably lost a lot of folks over the tobacco thing. Besides, the GB and Bethel probably runs on their coffee every morning.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Tammy
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What show scared you as a kid?
by Been there inposting on wtlies thread i got to thinking about the shows i watched as a kid.
there were a couple that scared the &*^% out of me.
the old twilight zone where the little demon guy was on the airplane wing was really scary.
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Swan
Plum!
It's not funny! I was scared to death of that giant. It was a horrible thing to endure as a child. My mother always had to serve Libby's at the dinner table from then on.
Tammy
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What show scared you as a kid?
by Been there inposting on wtlies thread i got to thinking about the shows i watched as a kid.
there were a couple that scared the &*^% out of me.
the old twilight zone where the little demon guy was on the airplane wing was really scary.
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Swan
Believe it or not, the Jolly Grean Giant scared me to death. When those vegetable commercials came on I would run and jump on the couch and bury my face in the cushions. HO! HO! HO! I would hear him and almost pee myself. Scary stuff to a little kid. For a while I imagined that Jehovah looked like the Jolly Green Giant, only white. Big mean dude. Used to have nightmares about it.
Tammy