I don't think they use the word "channel" to refer to the Governing Body when going door-to-door. It seems to me that they are more likely to use it when they have a Bible study to "teach" someone what the Governing Body is, or when there is a private discussion between Jehovah's Witnesses who just "accidentally" "happen to" talk about how awesome the Governing Body is. Otherwise, I don't think they like to refer to the Governing Body as the "sole channel of communication between God and his people." They try really hard not to appear to others as if they had human leaders. (Have you heard a Witness justifying Russell's position in the early days of the organisation...? I have. They sound so miserable.)
Saename
JoinedPosts by Saename
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Gov body
by dogisgod ini had a couple of young brothers at my door and one used the word "channel" in referring to how the gb gets inspired.
i was pretty surprised at that.
i've been "out" for a long time and i'm very out of the loop..
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Got the personal invite to the D.C
by Phizzy ina nice jw old boy knocked the door and asked me how i was, said they were giving out invites, i refrained from mocking him for the total waste of time such "work" is.. he mentioned that " we don't know when the end will come" , so i just said i was sure my new grandson would grow up, go to university, get a good job and his kids would do the same, by which time i shall be long gone.. "you are sure of that ?
" asked the jw, "oh yes", i replied.. i know we cannot be sure of anything, except death and taxes, but there is loads of evidence that my scenario may well play out, there is no single shred of evidence for an "end to the system" as envisaged by jw's, their weird view coming from a totally discredited source, the bible and mainly its final book, what nonsense..
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Saename
Next time you should pretend you just converted to a new religion called jeehooberism and are on your way to the altar that's in your house so that you could sacrifice some vegetables (because you can't animals...) Then ask them to pray with you to Jeehoober.
Note: not Jehovah but Jeehoober.
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New Monthly Broadcast - BE LOYAL! - Shut Up and Sit Down!
by ttdtt inthe new broadcast is - predictably - about being loyal to the gb.it's a shut up and sit down message.. one of the funny things they keep bringing up is the correlation between the gb and moses.those who don't listen to the gb are like korah.. this is a false choice, why?let's look at a quick comparison.
(this is from the point of view of the bible).
was moses directly picked by god?- yeswas the gb directly picked by god?- well no, we actually are not told how the gb are picked and why the qualify.. did god talk to moses?- yesdoes god talk to the gb- no, they admit they are not in direct communication.. did god inspire moses to write laws and judge.- yesdoes god inspire the gb to write laws and judge.- no, they admit they are not inspired, and they are always wrong and need to change things all the time.. did god give the israelites undisputable proof that moses is his channel?- yes, many miracles visible to everyone one around happenddoes god give jws undisputable proof that the gb are his channel?- no, there is no proof, actually contrary.. was moses ever wrong?- nohas the gb ever been wrong?- every time.
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Saename
Recently, I've been hearing all about loyalty... The end must be getting close, brothers and sisters.
stillin - The witnesses chatter about the latest broadcast. Have I seen the new one yet? No, not yet. And I haven't seen the last six of them! Hahahahaaa!
Exactly! I have no idea what it is... They keep asking you all the time the very same question: "Have you seen the latest broadcasting?"
No, and I never will. If I ever do, then shoot me, as one "sister" said at the convention.
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There is a new letter to elders about Child Abuse
by ttdtt inanyone see that there is a long letter on how to handle child abuse?.
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Saename
konceptual99 - Time and time again it has been demonstrated that the elders are so brainless that they have to be told what the law is.
Yeah... That's been pretty much proven during the Australian Royal Commission.
flipper - So much of this letter is same shit- different day.
Yeah... This letter is gold bullshit. Kind of like this:
It's decorated nicely with gold and a red pillow, but at the end of the day... it's just shit. The letter may be nicely written, and it may sound well-organised to a normal Witness, but it's still the same shit.
Mozzie - In the young people ask book i believe it talks about reporting these things to the elders or the family, but no where does it say to contact \authorities.
I've never read the Young People Ask books, but I'll take your word for it. So... go(o)d point!
They're telling young, innocent people to contact elders, but they don't let them know of the policies that the elders have. Those young ones have no idea what the elders will do—and they will most likely do nothing—yet are still told to report to the elders. Those young people will think that the elders will protect them, take care of them, but as it's been proven time and time again, those foolish elders have no f*cking idea what to do in cases of child abuse. Because... guess what... neither of them has a degree in a relevant field in order to talk to and help an abused victim. Disgusting. And then they tell in courts that they are guided by some letters from 7 men in New York, so they know what they're doing... They. Are. F*cking. Fools. Let us, both theists and atheists, pray to heavens for Hell so that those fools could learn a lesson.
Right...?
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There is a new letter to elders about Child Abuse
by ttdtt inanyone see that there is a long letter on how to handle child abuse?.
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Saename
About calling the Legal Department when there are mandatory reporting laws in the area... What is the point of calling the Legal Department in the first place? It surely must be so that the Legal Department can think of some excuse not to inform the authorities? I mean... what other purpose would there be for this policy? If there is a mandatory law, then there is a mandatory law. It's that simple... I don't think anyone has to think about whether to inform authorities when the law requires that one do so? Or are the elders so brainless that they have to be told what the law means?
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There is a new letter to elders about Child Abuse
by ttdtt inanyone see that there is a long letter on how to handle child abuse?.
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Saename
steve2 - Very helpful overview Saename. Makes the changes - or lack of them - stand out.
Thank you for your kind words.
steve2 - Regarding your above quote, my understanding is that this aspect changed some time back. It is not new. In other words, for some years now, the victim has not had to be confront the alleged abuser or be present when elders question him.
I wasn't aware of that. This means that there are practically no changes in the policies. Why did they bother to write the letter at all...?
steve2 - For me the big change is allowing a member of the congregation to be present when the elders meet with the victim, preferably a parent. Sure, if one of the parents is not a JW that excludes them - but at least it's a start. I note too that it does not state that the victim chooses who her support person will be - but I'd like to think the elders will take that into account - no guarantees.
Yeah, at least it is a start. Still, they should be despised by everyone and anyone because of excluding non-JW parents—especially disfellowshipped ones.
Thank you for your note, too. I didn't notice the fact that the victim does not choose her support person. The decision is entirely made by the elders, so... yeah... probably they would exclude non-JW parents—especially disfellowshipped ones.
steve2 - In essence, whilst a change here and there, it does not go far enough - especially around informing the authorites regardless of what the state law is.
Yeah, informing the authorities is the big part. The letter does not say whether the elders should even encourage the parents to inform the authorities—meaning, the elders will probably not encourage the parents to do so.
stillin - I recommend caution in this. It's fun but I had an elder go into bulldog mode when I tipped my hand about something that only the elite elders were supposed to know. I acted dumb and another elder came to my rescue.
But then, I'm doing a painfully slow fade. Maybe you're looking for excitement.
Yeah, I'm not really looking for a slow fade. I'm all for excitement. Besides, I'm an unbaptised publisher who just finished high school and is going to university after summer. That means that I do have friends outside the congregation. It wouldn't matter to me if they decided to shun me. Additionally, I'm a very confident person. Very confident. I don't let others have authority over me. I don't believe the elders have any real power. It's all fake. I realise this, so I really don't think they'd be capable of dealing with me if they pursued the case.
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There is a new letter to elders about Child Abuse
by ttdtt inanyone see that there is a long letter on how to handle child abuse?.
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Saename
JW GoneBad - Talk about 'hot off the press'...this letter is dated August 1, 2016...that's today! The internet is a peach!
Yup! Maybe I'll even talk to one of the elders in my congregation about it? I wonder what he would say if he learned that I read a letter to the body of elders? :D
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Child sexual abuses accusations in Spain
by sp74bb inspanish branch starts to be nervous since a few days.
clear and detailed child abuse accusations has been posted on spanish forum:.
http://www.extj.com/showthread.php?28145-la-marikamaladealella-y-sus-cómplices&p=513578#post513578.
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Saename
SAHS, you are so right! This is something that I have thought about a few weeks ago, actually. If the United Nations organised an investigation of the Watchtower's policies, it would be great. The Witnesses would be running around in circles screaming, "Persecution! Persecution!"
The world should start a so-called witch hunt. Except that it'd be a witch hunt not for witches but for sexual abusers, especially in religions, and especially in the Jehovah's Witness organisation since it is a fundamentalist religion that claims the Bible is the inerrant word of God, which inevitably leads to inadequate policies in protection of victims.
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There is a new letter to elders about Child Abuse
by ttdtt inanyone see that there is a long letter on how to handle child abuse?.
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Saename
This is an analysis of the whole letter. If you don't want to read the whole analysis, please at least read my analysis of paragraphs 4, 11, 13b, and 19ab. Paragraph 11 is especially important because of its ambiguous wording. In summary, this letter introduces only one change—namely that the victim does not have to be interrogated by the elders in front of the abuser.
¶4 - Our publications and website contain much helpful information to assist parents
Yeah, well... I'm pretty sure those publications were not written by anyone with a degree in social sciences. That should render them useless in regards to child abuse, especially child sexual abuse. Those people are blind as hell.
¶5, 6 - Legal Considerations: In some jurisdictions, individuals who learn of an allegation of child abuse may be obligated by law to report the allegation to the secular authorities. In all cases, the victim and her parents have the absolute right to report an allegation to the authorities
Okay... "Individuals who learn of an allegation of child abuse may be obligated by law to report [...]" But should they? As paragraph 5 states, no. They should always inform the Legal Department first. So no change here.
Next... "In all cases, the victim and her parents have the absolute right to report an allegation to the authorities." Again, should they? Should the elders encourage them to report the allegation to the authorities? Would the victims be even informed that they have such a right...?
Paragraphs 5 and 6 are completely ambiguous and include no directions. So how does that letter help...? It doesn't, but the elders will now go around in circles praising Jehovah for helping them deal with child abuse. Ridiculous.
¶9 - If the elders become aware of an adult associated with a congregation who has been in-volved with child pornography, two elders should immediately call the Legal Department. Likewise, if the elders become aware of an adult or a minor associated with a congregation who is “sexting” with a minor, the Legal Department should be called immediately.
Okay... call the Legal Department... Then what? Ah, the same thing! Okay, I get it! No change here. Are we not glad to see such improvements in our policies? Let us praise Jehovah!
¶11 - In the case of any discussion with a child abuse victim who is still a minor, an elder should never meet alone with the minor but should al-ways involve another elder and another adult member of the congregation, preferably the minor’s parent(s). If it is not possible to include the parent (for example, if the parent is the accused), then another adult member of the congregation who is a confidant of the victim should be included. In addition to the spiritual shepherding provided by the elders, the victim or her family may desire other assistance. For example, the victim or her family may decide to consult a mental-health pro-fessional. This would be a personal decision for them to make.
So... in any discussion with the victim, an adult member of the congregation, in addition to the elders, should be involved. Note that it says that this adult member of the congregation should preferably be a parent. Not the other way around. IMPORTANT NOTE: That means that if the parent is not a member of the congregation, s/he is not allowed to be with the victim. F*cking sick. (Sorry for my language, but that is completely absurd.) (Additionally, what about women...?)
Next, if the parent is accused, s/he is not allowed to be included in the discussion. Good.
Next, mental-health professionals thing. Still absurd. Why? Look at the wording. "In addition to the spiritual shepherding." This means that no professional is allowed in the discussion (I'm assuming also the judicial committee.) A professional may be involved in an additional, private help. (Are they assuming that elders can handle it? Again...)
¶13a - These elders should carefully fol-low Scriptural procedures and the Bible-based direction outlined in this letter and in the Shepherd-ing textbook, particularly chapter 5.
Two-witness rule, anybody...? (The only mention of two-witness rule is in paragraph 6. The elders are told to call the Legal Department even if there is only one witness—but only to "comply with child-abuse reporting laws." So... what if there is no law...? And even if there is, what "advice" would the elders be given...?)
¶13b - Elders should remember that during the investigation process and during the judicial committee process, a victim of child sexual abuse is not required to make her allegation in the presence of the alleged abuser.
Allelujah! This is the first change introduced in this letter that is worth something. (What about what I've noted above, though...? And bellow...?)
¶14 - If wrongdoing is estab-lished and the wrongdoer is not repentant, he should be disfellowshipped. [...] On the other hand, if the wrongdoer is repentant and is reproved, the reproof should be announced to the congregation. [...] This announcement will serve as a protection for the congregation.
Disfellowshipped? So... he has been proven to abuse the victim... but still no authorities involved? Okay, if it's required, then they will call the Legal Department. What then...? Or what if the law does not require any such thing...? No authorities still...?
And if repentant... only reproof? Ah, announced to the congregation as a protection? Would that announcement of reproof involve informing the congregation that this individual was abusing a child? I'm assuming the answer is "No"?
¶17 - when an unbaptized publisher or a baptized member of the congregation who denies an accusation of child sexual abuse is convicted by the secular authorities
I was hoping this meant that the secular authorities should be informed or something. But... no... When the authorities learn of the abuse and convict the accused, then restrictions within the congregation should be put upon the accused. That's all it means.
¶18 - In some cases, the Service Department may specifically direct elders to inform parents of minors within the congregation of the need to monitor their children’s interaction with an individu-al.
Okay... But would these parents be informed that it's about child abuse? I guess no...?
¶19a - And the congregation cannot read hearts to tell who is and who is not liable to mo-lest children again.
Shouldn't that be a reason to contact secular authorities who have actual experience in this...? No...? Okay... Let us praise Jehovah for giving us elders who cannot read hearts of other people yet have responsibilities that require reading hearts! This is such a wise and helpful direction!!! [Sarcasm...]
¶19b - Therefore, if the body of elders believes that one who has engaged in child sexual abuse decades ago may now qualify for minor privileges, such as carrying or adjusting microphones, operating audio/video equipment, or assisting with accounts, liter-ature, magazines, or territories, they should assign two elders to call the Service Department. The as-signed elders should call the Service Department before any congregation privileges are extended.
Ooooh... Because the Service Department can read hearts...? Okay...
¶23 - From time to time, secular authorities may in-form the elders that a sex offender is living in the area. The notice may provide the address of the individual and may state the nature of his criminal activity. In such a case, the elders should list that address on the appropriate congregation territory card as a “Do Not Call.”
But no information given to the rest of the congregation...? None at all? And all that is done is putting a "Do Not Call" thing-ey on the territory card...? I have experience in field service. Publishers often forget that a specific household is a "Do Not Call." Moreover, some even visit a household that is a "Do Not Call" even though they should not. What then...?
By the way, so far there's been no mention of informing the secular authorities of child abuse. Only an ambiguous mention of calling the Legal Department if the law requires reporting any allegation of child abuse. During the Australian Royal Commission, one elder was asked what he would do if he learned that one member of the congregation has murdered another person. He replied that he would call the Legal Department. That says it all, I think.
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After analysing this letter, I must say that I am disappointed. There are no good changes in it. The only change I personally noticed is that the abused one doesn't have to be accompanied by the abuser in interrogations. This letter, in other words, is complete bullsh*t.
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What will happen when they go full cult mode
by RobertT18 inand they start delivering their message of judgment?
what do you think will happen when they start knocking on doors and telling people that their families will be killed in armageddon because they did not believed in jehovah.
i'm curious how people will react.
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Saename
In my post above I didn't actually take into consideration the required fulfillment of prophecies. Certain prophecies have to be fulfilled before the Great Tribulation could ever be announced—such as the UN ending false religion, as ttdtt has pointed out.
