Posts by Saename

5

World Youth Day in Poland

by TheWonderofYou in

in the video of the world youth day "spread message of divine mercy" the young people are called witnesses of christ's church.

i am now watching the happy young people.. introduction words even in english at youtube 9:07. .

anyone here understands polish too?.

Saename

I understand Polish, but I am not interested in watching those videos. The Polish Catholic church is full of hypocrisy.

16

so at the meeting this week it was announced that a certain brother was no longer serving as a ministerial servant.. this is a guy who was brought up in a different country as his family went to serve where the need was greater.

this is a guy who was home schooled and went straight into pioneering.

he then went and worked on building projects in various places in europe and africa.

Saename

Pete Zahut - When I returned from my year at Bethel, an Elder asked me in front of a bunch of people why I only stayed for one year. I said " You grew up in the truth....why didn't you go to Bethel at all?"

Good revenge. You don't embarrass people in front of others, or you'll get embarrassed yourself. He'll remember that for the future.

Pete Zahut - I remember a nice young pioneer sister in our congregation became engaged and decided to stop pioneering so she could work and save for a place of their own. At the end of the Thursday meeting, the P.O got up and said "I have a sad announcement to make...Mary Smith will no longer be among the ranks of our pioneers".
But for the sound of Mary sobbing at her seat, you could have heard a pin drop. It was like they announced a death.

This is something I don't understand. She resigned. Okay. So why not thank her for her service? Even in the modern Catholic church, which Jehovah's Witnesses despise so much, people are thanked for their service—though I suspect that also depends on the churches' localities.

When it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses, everyone is happy and praises you so long as you do the service. Once you stop, people think you just... died. This is a real attempt at guilt-trapping others. Inexcusable.

19

Jeehoober says we can clap for reinstated ones!!

by DATA-DOG in

so, i guess an upcoming wt has some new light on clapping!

evidently, jesus has misinformed the gb/wtbts since the late 90's.

clapping was disrespectful, because jesus felt that those who were df'd should not be given a pat on the back.

Saename

Is this a new instruction given by the Governing Body? I have not heard of it. Where was it given? (I do not attend meetings anymore, so that may be why I have not heard of this new instruction to clap for reinstated ones.)

16

Has any other GB member achieved a university degree aside from Lloyd Barry?

by DNCall in

jw
friends

i can't think of one.

anyone .

.

Saename

I know Geoffrey Jackson didn't even finish high school and is regarded as a Biblical "scholar."

People today have forgotten what the word "scholar" means, I guess...

19

Watchtower Nov 2016 - Instructions for Apostates

by Listener in

the november 2016 watchtower is now available and it has more new light but i can't quite figure out what they are saying.

it relates to when the jws were released from the captivity of babylon the great (false religion).

i am not attempting to discuss that in this post.

Saename

Listener - Informing every JW we know is not enough, we could do more. Distributing thousands of tracts these days is not realistic, efficient or economical, fortunately we have other means of spreading the message. We do this via the internet and word of mouth as well as other means. We can be thankful that it is within most of our means that we are able to spread the word. No doubt, the organization would say it was Satan who was providing this effective method for us today, yet they could hardly do so when the utilize the same method more and more.
What have we found? Just as the Russelites experienced, the religious leaders are furious. The JW religion wish to shut us down, they tighten the hold on their fold and they call us all kinds of despicable names, they'll even call the higher authorities to act against us if they can get away with it. We are encouraged to remain undeterred, not letting their sly remarks of telling us to 'move on' and to leave peacefully.

Holy hell! This sounded as if it were written by the Governing Body! Look, it's the same type of language! [SARCASM ALERT in case you read Fox News] Are you starting your own little cult...?

48

"Mother" Teresa—a Fraud?

by Saename in

i often comment in threads that interest me on this forum.

moreover, some of you may know that i study the history of early christianity.

i once wrote an extensive comment on the historicity of jesus' existence in one of the threads.

Saename

John_Mann - I don't know about the info presented here but it's a blatant lie about sisters performing baptism. In the Catholic faith women cannot perform baptism. And baptism is not performed to sick or dying people because there's a specific sacrament to them.

This is not a "blatant lie" at all. Teresa did encourage her "sisters" to secretly baptise the dying. This is documented in an eyewitness's account. Moreover, Simon Leys actually did write in defense of Teresa. What is noteworthy, however, is that he did not call the accusation a "lie" whatsoever. Instead, he tried to argue why the baptisms of the dying against their will was innocent. In effect, he acknowledged that Teresa and her "sisters" did baptise the dying.

On a further note, the fact that you say to not know about the information I have presented in this thread says something about your attempt to defend Teresa.

59

Morning Woship: Kenneth Flodin targets "apostates"

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

video is entitled "beware of deceit" he uses the letter of jude to show that current day apostates are deceitful and that they use "trickery" to and "twist facts" to try to "grab our mind".

warning: your head might explode.

especially past the 5:30 mark.

Saename

darkspilver shared two pictures that show "Question from Readers" section of Watchtower 1 July, 1957. In the third paragraph, it is written,

In the first place, let it be noted that the two disciples on the way to Emmaus were Bible readers and yet did not understand why God had allowed Jesus to be put to death. The scribes and Pharisees read God's Word continually and yet failed to appreciate that Jesus was their Messiah.

Interestingly, the author of the words above fails to mention that the Jews did not believe that the messiah would die. It was the invention of Jesus' followers after his death to reason why the person they believed to be the messiah had died. Historically speaking, the Jews in Jesus' lifetime did not believe the messiah would die! This is why those "Bible readers," as the Watchtower calls them, did not understand the scriptures the way the Christians did! The Jews had many beliefs as to who the messiah would be—a priest, a king, a warrior, a prophet, etc.—but no Jew believed that the messiah would die!

Oh those apologetic Christians!

2

A Manufactured example? (Morning Worship, by Kenneth Flodin: Beware of Deceit)

by bats in the belfry in

the only 1910 watchtower i ever came across are the wtbts reprints.

has anyone ever seen the original 1910 watchtower scan online?.

flodin's story line does not add up.

Saename

There was another thread about that: Morning Worship: Kenneth Flodin Targets "Apostates".

As a matter of fact, I did about half-an-hour worth of research, and I did come to a conclusion that Flodin does lie in this video—well, maybe not necessarily "lies" as much as tells half-truths.

Check the thread and see my comments posted there. I included there the whole passage from the Watchtower, and I also found the entire Watchtower itself—along with the page reference—in some archive.

48

"Mother" Teresa—a Fraud?

by Saename in

i often comment in threads that interest me on this forum.

moreover, some of you may know that i study the history of early christianity.

i once wrote an extensive comment on the historicity of jesus' existence in one of the threads.

Saename

Hi, everyone. Some of you may already know me. I often comment in threads that interest me on this forum. Moreover, some of you may know that I study the history of early Christianity. I once wrote an extensive comment on the historicity of Jesus' existence in one of the threads. This is to say that I am interested in history of Christianity; however, it is important to note, before you continue reading my response, that whenever I study Christianity and members of this religion, I do so from the historical perspective. I am not interested in apologetics nor in theology, though I may from time to time offer some insight on the latter topic.

Accordingly, I have been studying Christianity for quite some time now. However, it occurred to me recently that I, even though I have studied many myths that people believe today, have never looked into the beliefs that people so commonly hold about "Mother" Teresa. If I have learned anything from my studies, it is that whenever most members of the public believe that a claim is true, it is likely false. For instance, many individuals believe that people in the Middle Ages thought the earth was flat. Nonetheless, as it happens, almost everybody—likely even the poor people—believed that the earth was round! Scientists of the time were even able to give an approximate circumference of our planet.

Now, how does that connect to Teresa of Calcutta? Well, most people—in my experience—do believe that she was a good and ethical person. The Catholic church even scheduled her canonization to occur on September 4th, 2016. I personally attended high school that was named after her. Many students in my high school, whenever we had discussions about what it meant to be true to oneself and to be a good person, often spoke of how Teresa was an example to follow. It is often believed that Teresa cared for the poor and for the dying.

However, the skeptical "me" was very suspicious of those claims. Was she actually a good and ethical person? To put it briefly, if I were to judge her upon her actions, she was not a good person at all. In fact, I would go as far as to claim that she was a delusional fool at best. Why is it the case?

Firstly, we know that Teresa's organisation had millions of dollars to spare. Her organisation often received multi-million donations to help the poor and the sick. The volunteers for her cause were often encouraged to beg the donors for more, claiming that it was for the work of God who was interested in improving the state of our world. The thing to understand is that with the money Teresa had, she could have easily built half a dozen modern and fully equipped hospitals.

However, what was so common about her actual hospices? As is the case, Teresa actually glorified suffering and poverty. You may think that it is a good belief to hold; nevertheless, Teresa went to the extremes with her ideology. She believed that suffering and poverty were a blessing—a blessing!—from God. As a result, her hospices had no modern equipment available. According to her, people should be allowed to suffer as it could draw them closer to God. She herself said, "I think it is very good when people suffer. To me that is like the kiss of Jesus." As it happens, she said that to one of her patients who was suffering from a terrible illness and was denied painkillers. The patient replied, "Please ask Jesus to stop kissing me."

If you thought that it could be just an individual case, it would be reasonable of you to believe so. Unfortunately, that is not true at all. At her hospices, needles used were never properly sterilized; instead, they were rinsed in cold water and reused. Additionally, she called human suffering beneficial and “beautiful”—whatever that was supposed to mean. Teresa once said, “I think it’s very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people.”

The above would be best illustrated by an example of when Teresa’s organisation, in 1990 in New York, was given two buildings by the city so that it could be used to help people with disabilities—even though Teresa at first wanted to use the buildings to help only the poor. Accordingly, the city asked her to install an elevator in the buildings so that the disabled persons could be allowed to move freely, on their own, with dignity. The city even offered to pay for the elevator on their own, although she could easily afford to pay for it herself.

However, Teresa denied to install the elevator. What was so wrong with it? Teresa and the “sisters” wanted the disabled people to experience their charitable work in poverty while being carried. After all, poverty, along with suffering, is sacred, right? Frankly, I don’t think this is how disabled persons view personal dignity.

Moreover, when people at the hospices were in need of emergency surgery or other immediate treatment, the patients were not allowed to go to any hospital. I personally have no knowledge of any case when a patient was allowed to go to a hospital when in need of emergency surgery.

On the contrary, I know of a case when a patient, with the help of a friend of a friend, broke free from one of Teresa's hostels for people with AIDS. When his illness worsened, he had to return to the hostel, even though he made it clear to his friend that, under no circumstances, he wanted to go back. He feared that he would not receive necessary medication for his illness—not even morphine. Interestingly, people in this hostel—which claimed to help people with AIDS—were often depressed because they were denied watching TV, and they were not allowed to see any visitors, including friends. The patient I just spoke of was lucky to break free, even though only temporarily, because the friend of a friend was a journalist by name of Elgy Gillespie. To make the case worse, Teresa once spoke about people with AIDS when the International Health Organization honoured her in 1989. She said that AIDS was a "just retribution for improper sexual conduct." Why were those patients denied medication, visitors, and even watching TV? Was it not because of Teresa's delusional fundamentalism?

To add to those terrible circumstances in which the hospices were, Susan Shields, an eyewitness, wrote an article in Free Inquiry in which she states,

I worked undercover for a week in Mother Teresa’s flagship home for disabled boys and girls to record Mother Teresa’s Legacy, a special report for Five News broadcast earlier this month. I winced at the rough handling by some of the full-time staff and Missionary sisters. I saw children with their mouths gagged open to be given medicine, their hands flaying in distress, visible testimony to the pain they were in. Tiny babies were bound with cloths at feeding time. Rough hands wrenched heads into position for feeding. Some of the children retched and coughed as rushed staff crammed food into their mouths. Boys and girls were abandoned on open toilets for up to 20 minutes at a time. Slumped, untended, some dribbling, some sleeping, they were a pathetic sight. Their treatment was an affront to their dignity, and dangerously unhygienic.

Volunteers did their best to cradle and wash the children who had soiled themselves. But there were no nappies, and only cold water. Soap and disinfectant were in short supply. Workers washed down beds with dirty water and dirty clothes. Food was prepared on the floor in the corridor. A senior member of staff mixed medicine with her hands. Some did their best to give love and affection—at least some of the time. But, for the most part, the care the children received was inept, unprofessional, and, in some cases, rough and dangerous. “They seem to be warehousing people rather than caring for them,” commented the former operations director of Mencap Martin Gallagher, after viewing our undercover footage.

Was all of the above because Teresa’s organisation could not afford better equipment for the hospices? As I have already stated, the money donated would be enough to build half a dozen of modern hospitals, fully equipped. Therefore, no, it was not the reason at all. All of the above was caused by Teresa’s delusional ideology that poverty and suffering were a blessing from God.

So what happened to the money that her organisation was donated—millions of dollars? In 1991, a German magazine Stern revealed that only 7% of the money was used for actual charity. The rest was likely used for missionary causes or was funneled into secret bank accounts.

In fact, the former leads to another problem. Being a fundamentalist Catholic, Teresa put missionary work above any medical attention. Her ideology resembled that of the Jehovah’s Witnesses to whom spirituality is more important than life—except that she even encouraged secret baptisms at her hospices, often against the will of her patients. The “sisters” would ask an ambiguous question to the patients as to whether they would want to have “a ticket to heaven.” The “sisters” that worked with Teresa were to pretend that they were cooling the patients’ heads with a wet cloth, while saying quietly the necessary words for baptism. The secrecy was much needed so that it would not become known that they were baptising Hindus and Muslims.

Furthermore, Teresa was, to put it blatantly obvious, a hypocrite. Note that, as I have already stated, her hospices lacked modern equipment, and people were not allowed any medication, except for aspirin and, at times, ibuprofen. She considered suffering sacred. Would you imagine yourself suffering from cancer and being given only aspirin? Having that said, how was Teresa hypocritical? When she herself was in need of medical attention, she sought the best and the most advanced care possible in the West! Did she not want to be kissed by Jesus as well?

To conclude my extensive response—which is in total, rather unexpectedly, 1,800 words—to what I have learned of Teresa, I must say that she was not a good and ethical person people believe her to have been. Was she evil? I personally would not categorise her as such. It would be a mistake to compare her to individuals like Hitler or Stalin. In case of Teresa, it was her mistaken, delusional, fundamentalist ideology that encouraged her to pretend to do “the work of God.” Did she believe she was doing the good thing? I think she did. She was just mistaken. She was delusional. In effect, she was not a good or ethical person by any standards.

For more reading on the subject, please refer to Christopher Hitchens’s book The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice. There is much more that could be said of Teresa that I have not mentioned in this response. There are many eyewitnesses of which testimonies I have not included.

6

amazing apustates

by Luo bou to in

for the arc to be apostate lies imagine the skill and talent involved in stage management such an event even finding someone who looked like g jackson to play the part of yhis gb member.

Saename

Photoshop...? Wasn't it Microsoft Paint, though?