terry, since you have long proclaimed your inability to comprehend the greatest expression of love in the universe, substitutionary atonement; perhaps this scene from the last of the mohicans will help you to understand.. the chief has just handed down a death sentence to the brunette daughter of the captured english general.
the english officer in this scene can speak both english and french.
since daniel day lewis can only speak mohican and english, and the cheif can only speak huron and french, the captured english officer must translate to the chief in french.
Perry,
I would really like to know the location of hell, can you tell me?
Also, why didn't god just forgive A & E, was it really such an unforgivable transgression. Oh, I forgot they were perfect, but in another thread another believer says the bible doesn't say they were perfect. Now I'm confused.
in the new dvd governing body member david splane discusses the fact that the bible students did not simply disappear after russell died in 1916. he says this is because jehovah had already chosen the organization to do his work.. this is not a work of man, this is a work of jehovah god.
it's evident that jehovah had already chosen this organization, because of the faithfulness and the sincerity of the men behind it.
it's obvious that jehovah had already chosen this organization to get his work done.
Thanks for the quotes MrMonroe and Titus for the cartoon
brief history...my mother (love her dearly) is the most devout (okay, brainwashed) jw i know.
wouldn't hear anything that would cause her to doubt.
my dad converted after 20-some-odd years, so i grew up with the "unbelieving father", my mom had the "unbelieving mate" and we were henceforth treated like dirt in the congregation...plus we were poor.
Just a warning, I got my father to read the UN thing, he blew it off saying that it was OK since JW's do share principles with the UN. Never underestimate the power of mind control.
if the day jesus died is the most important in the history of man, providing 'salvation' - then i have to ask two questions: why did the gospel writers wait decades to record those final hours, instead of doing so immediately?
if god later 'inspired' them to do so, why couldn't they agree on what jesus said in his absolute final words?
matt 27:46,50: "and about the ninth hour jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "eli, eli, lama sabachthani?
For me to accept that the bible is in fact inspired by god, quotes like these need to be exact. It's obvious that even if they were conflicting, believers would find a way to justify it.
after shopping at costco for years and years, i just realized i don't even check the prices anymore to compare them to those at other stores.
somewhere along the way i got into the habbit of assuming that they always have the best prices and best products.
it dawned on me that it's sort of like that with being a witness especially if you were raised as that way.
Great analogy! I've noticed the same thing, as long as you are captive of the concept that you are in an organization directed by god you feel no need to check the "prices".
since i've come to the realization and conclusion that i've been living a fictional lifestyle for the last 17 years, i've also come to identify with agnosticism.. .
but one issue that's been taking it's emotional toll on me lately is the realization of the fictitious paradisiac earth.. it was the ultimate goal as a witness- the answer to everything.
even if you had questions that couldn't be answered, you were to "wait until the paradise and ask" when you got there.. .
I not only grew up as a born in JW, but I also grew up around a convalescent hospital (nursing home is a more fitting term) I grew up seeing death, and as a JW I had no problem dealing with death. But now, as an ex-JW atheist, death has taken on a whole new meaning. I can't deal with it quite as well as I used to. Although I never pictured myself living in the WT paradise utopia, I somehow managed to not let the reality of death sink in. As I feel myself aging quickly, that harsh reality is hard to not think about, but it doesn't consume my life. There is lots of good advice on this thread, everyone deals with it differently, hopefully you can come to grips with the situation.
we have a few mentally ill ones in our congregation, and i don't mean suffering from depression or anxiety.
i'm not even talking mild bipolar.
i'm talking really messed up in the head, schizophrenic types, and bipolar withpsychotic features.
There was a "sister" in the congregation where I grew up that had mental problems. She was always causing problems accusing the "brothers" of various things. She was eventually df'd after my dad, the congregation servant, conferring with the society, and they told him that having a broken mind was no different than having a broken arm.
i wanted to share with everyone, why i left religion all together, in favor of thinking for myself, and believing in myself.. in the bible, there are of course several accounts which i consider to be barbaric and gruesome.
i also consider the worst accounts to be inhumane.
if the bible god is consistent in one thing, it is the continuing theme of inflicting torture and torment on humanity.
Great post! Thomas Paine was a turning point for me too.
hi, i dont post here too often, but i was reading the other post about why bad things happen, and i am curious for everyones thoughts on this: i have recently left about 9 months ago.
at first i thought i was closer to god and was reading the bible more than ever.... praying asking for help, clarity, etc.....but after a while i started to ask myself why would god answer my messily little prayers when hundreds of thousands were dieing in haiti?
the witness mindset that i remember was not to pray for things to happen, but for strength for yourself to do something.
Nothing wrong with prayer. I pray to Clint Eastwood and get the same results I got praying to Jehovah. It seems to be about 50-50 chance of having them answered.
in george orwell's novel 'nineteen eighty-four' the capitulation of the principal protagonist is portrayed in his willingness to assent to the proposition that two and two make five.
once he had denied objective reality, his mental conquest was complete and he was no longer truly the master of his own mind.
nineteen eighty-four is in many ways, a very depressing read.. a charge commonly leveled at jehovah's witnesses is that the type of mind control envisioned by orwell has been and continues to be used on them.
AIW It's really easy to gloss over your posts. You need to separate your comments from the quotes. They all blend together.
