Posts by startingover

49

Do Animals Have Feelings?

by anewme in

jw
friends

do they feel love?

fear?

jealousy?

The bluejay story makes me so sad. But out of the sadness came my memory of a bluejay attacking and killing a smaller bird in my yard. I tried to save the small bird but it had already been damaged beyond saving.

I think what we have that animals don't have is a conscience. My birds will do something and act a little remorseful when scolded, but they will turn around and do the same thing 5 minutes later. Absolutely no conscience whatsoever.

I too can no longer kill an animal, even bugs. Sometimes I wish I wasn't like that, it really causes alot of heartache in this world we live in. When iwas a JW I could not understand the aniimal dying thing. My wife would tell me that they would just go away somewhere and we would never know they died, since we wouldn't get attached to them because they would all be tame and we wouldn't keep them like pets as we do now. I now think that is just a fantasy. I think the reality is that nature is cruel.

Enigma-thanks for the advice.

49

Do Animals Have Feelings?

by anewme in

jw
friends

do they feel love?

fear?

jealousy?

startingover

ApostateKate

I've been thinking about this thread all day. I have thought many times about going "vegan". What has held me back is the seeming inconvenience and the thought that my change will in no way impact the situation. It's just so overwhelming.

For me it all goes back to the idea that we are all just animals. If I was hungry enough could I kill to eat? I have never faced it so I don't know. I honestly don't think I could. I think it would be easier for me to die instead. I wonder if there were humans in ancient times that felt like I do, who lived at a time when killing to get food meant survival.

As far as the god required animal sacrifices and the connection with Jesus, I have no use for the ransom sacrifice thing, it makes no sense to me whatsoever. I know to some it makes sense, but it never has to me. Never.

49

Do Animals Have Feelings?

by anewme in

jw
friends

do they feel love?

fear?

jealousy?

startingover

Satanus,

Thanks for posting that, I guess. To be honest I couldn't read the whole thing, it just makes me way too sad. I will read it later, but from what I read it confirms what I know to be true.

I have had cockatoos for almost 25 years, and have raised them from day 1, watching them come out of the egg. I now longer allow my pair to make babies as there has developed a huge problem with unwanted parrots. In case anyone is interested you can read about it here:

www.mytoos.com

People buy these birds because they are unbelievably sweet, but with handfeds that changes when they reach maturity and most people are not able to handle the noise and plucking and all the other negative things that go with it. So these birds end up living their lives in a small cage in a dark room to keep them from screaming. So here we have these beautiful intelligent creatures that people are willing to pay several thousand dollars for, and they end up in a dark room plucking themselves. But what about all the other unfortunate animals that we use for food. I am convinced they have all the feelings I am aware that my birds have because I have lived with them. It's all so sickening to me.

Interestingly, this is one of the things that has turned me totally off to there being a god. It is so obvious what aniamls have to do to survive, and this has been going on from the beginning. The idea of their being a creator that started all this is now disgusting to me, especially when he required the kiiling of animals and then enjoyed the odor of their burning flesh. And nowhere in the bible is there any allowance for animals to do anything but die.

49

Do Animals Have Feelings?

by anewme in

jw
friends

do they feel love?

fear?

jealousy?

startingover

anewme,

Just hearing about the pig makes me ill. Like FF said, I'm sure they can figure out what's going on. The only consolation I have, is that with animals when it comes down to surviving they will do anything, like even eating their buddy that got killed on the road. But if we as humans got put into that situation, what would we do. I think basically we are all just animals trying to survive.

The big question for me, considering how I feel about animals, is how I can continue to eat meat. I never forget the story about Linda McCartney eating a lamb dinner and looking out the window at the lambs out in the pasture and becoming a vegetarian as a result. I really admire her for that.

49

Do Animals Have Feelings?

by anewme in

jw
friends

do they feel love?

fear?

jealousy?

startingover

They absolutely do have feelings. Just like humans these feelings are displayed in different ways. My cockatoos all express their feelings in different ways and some are more sensative than others. I have one who will resort to biting me if he can't get what he desperately wants, and when he senses that wasn't the right thing to do and I get mad at him, he is immediately sorry and tries to make it up to me. He will come and nuzzle up to me.

What is a continuing source of sadness for me is my knowledge of animals that are used just for food. I know they have feelings too. I can't imagine how someone can work in a slaughter house. I get sick just thinking about it.

28

Rebellious angels.....why were they men and not women?

by gumby in

when jehovahs angels went ballistic before the flood.....for some reason these angels were only males who wanted all the hot babes on earth.

none of the angels decided to become a girl that went after all the dudes with nice fannys on earth.

how was it that every angel who went bad became a male?.

startingover

Good topic Gumby

The point about angels being creators, interesting...

I'm sure Runningman will get in on this thread, but he had some interesting things to say about it in this thread.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/94016/1.ashx

9

COJ responds to "Scholar"

by a Christian in

jw
friends

on another discussion board ("channel c") carl olof jonsson - the author of "the gentile times reconsidered" - just responded to a post by "scholar jw" concerning scholar's support of the watchtower's unique interpretation of jeremiah's "70 years" prophecies.

here are coj's comments to scholar: .

neill: .

startingover

How can one go about finding the Channel C discussion board?

The Wrestlers

by startingover in

russian and an newfoundland wrestler were set to square off for the olympic gold medal.

before the final match, the newfie wrestler's trainer came to him and said,"now, don't forget all the research we've done on this russian.

he's never lost a match because of this 'pretzel' hold he has, whatever you do, do not let him get you in that hold!

startingover

Russian and an Newfoundland wrestler were set to square off for the Olympic Gold medal. Before the final match, the Newfie wrestler's trainer came to him and said,"Now, don't forget all the research we've done on this Russian. He's never lost a match because of this 'pretzel' hold he has, whatever you do, do not let him get you in that hold! If he does, you're finished!"

The Newfie nodded in acknowledgement. As the match started, the Newfie and the Russian circled each other several times, looking for an opening. All of a sudden, the Russian lunged forward, grabbing the Newfie and wrapping him up in the dreaded pretzel hold.

A sigh of disappointment arose from the crowd and the trainer buried his face in his hands, for he knew all was lost. He couldn't watch the inevitable happen.

Suddenly, there was a scream, then a cheer from the crowd and the
trainer raised his eyes just in time to watch the Russian go flying up in the air. His back hit the mat with a thud and the Newfoundlander collapsed on top of him, making the pin and winning the match. The trainer was astounded. When he finally got his wrestler alone, he asked, "How did you ever get out of that hold? No one has ever done it before!"

The wrestler answered, "Well, I was ready to give up when he got me in that hold, but at the last moment Iopened my eyes and saw this pair of testicles right in front of my face. I had nothing to lose so with my last ounce of strength I stretched out my neck and bit those babies just as hard as I could."

"So," the trainer exclaimed, "That's what finished him off!"

"Not really. You'd be amazed how strong you get when you bite your own nuts

147

WT,DEC 1 2005,PP22-23;IS THIS AN INACCURATE STATEMENT?

by badboy in

jw
friends

.

weeks earlier,jews and proselytes from at least 15 regions of the roman empire had packed jerusalem to celebrate the passover.. on the next page,it seems to show arabia ,media,elam and parthenia as part of the roman empire.. i thought the romans never conquered arabia or persia.

am i right?.

startingover

One thing you are not taking into consideration is the communication that existed at that time. We are used to being able to talk to someone anywhere in the world just by pushing a few buttons.

Do you think it's possible that they "thought" they ruled the whole world? Take away your phone, your TV, your modern modes of transportation and see how your world shrinks.

Also, is it your opinion that they believed the world was round at that time? I don't think they did.

147

WT,DEC 1 2005,PP22-23;IS THIS AN INACCURATE STATEMENT?

by badboy in

jw
friends

.

weeks earlier,jews and proselytes from at least 15 regions of the roman empire had packed jerusalem to celebrate the passover.. on the next page,it seems to show arabia ,media,elam and parthenia as part of the roman empire.. i thought the romans never conquered arabia or persia.

am i right?.

startingover

Invariably on forums like this, there arises a discussion where someone is told they need to check their sources. That has happened quite a bit in this thread.

It's a good idea I guess, since I have read things on one site that I later discovered on another site word for word. So how does one decide what is a trusted source? I would really like to know what others use as a criteria for doing that.

Schizm, it seems you question every source but stop short of doing that with the bible. But if you did that this discussion would not have gotten this far.

Thanks for posting the definition for "bastard". I guess "disgreeable" was not a word I would have necessarily associated with "bastard". But I looked it up and there it was. But maybe I should question the source, I mean why should I trust dictionary.com. Where does it end?