i thought about this topic last night for the board when watching one of my favorite movies.. 1. the man from snowy river- the part when they are going after the expensive colt and they get to the edge of the cliff and all the other riders stop and "jim" keeps going and leaps down the cliff after the wild horses.
i absolutely love that part of the movie...everytime its on i have to watch it, if not just to see this part only.. 2. love and basketball- when she tells him she will play for his heart...awwww first time i started crying.
and then the music they had playing in the background made it even worse.
Hi,
Uzzah earlier in this topic mentioned that he liked "Princess Bride" but was embarrased about it - why was that? I think it is a great film - lots of fun. My favourite quote from it is:-
"Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father - prepare to die!" At which point the baddy who he is confronting turns & runs...
with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter.
reveal that similar, uncorroborated allegations were lodged against the same person in the past, perhaps.
may 9, 2002. page 2. however, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the.
Hi All,
In the WT letter it said:-
we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, No single witness should rise upagainst a man respecting any error or any sin . . . at the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three
witnesses the matter should stand good.
This will never happen in the case of child abuse or rape etc. Hence they are basically saying no action will be taken. Even when I was a witness I felt uncomfortable with this because logic says that when something awful of this nature is being done then by definition there will never be any witnesses - its all secret!
Obviously there can be false accusations but every case should be taken extremely seriously & the accuser taken seriously because hey lets face it how many people get up one day & say "Right today I think it will be great to accuse someone of child abuse - won't that be fun!" I don't think so - there is always something behind this type of thing...
Hence the only proper decent thing to do would be to report it to the police immediately so that it can be investigated properly. Elders don't know how to deal with this - even if they want to.
The society's policy is really impractical & stupid! So what is the worse happens & the accused witness can't be an elder anymore - given what he is doing his this really that important to him - I don't think so. If the WTS wanted to really protect children they could do nothing less than to report any accusation to the proper authorities straight away & to then do their best to aid the investigation but instead its handled - if at all - totally inappropriately.
As for th 23,000+ explaination above - what a load of rubbish - basically they have a list of lots of dodgy characters - it still means they have a list & that is all they have - basically until they get the proof which will never come they say they will never act - so no protection for children there!
I am really glad this came out - as Simon said elsewhere sometimes I am amazed at the things I used to believe as a Witness - such as in this case that Jehovah would never allow this to happen & hence nothing could be going on in the "True Religion" - what a joke...
Steven.
i didn't see all of panorama, but what i did see was outstanding.
in its depth and thoroughness, it surpassed what dateline had to offer.
it really highlighted some key points: .
Hi All,
The programme was really good. I listened to the radio program aftwards related to it & tried to ring in but then the programme moved on - I have posted the below on the related radio threads but wanted to put a slightly modified one here to...
I was going to say on the programme that most JWs don't believe that Jehovah would allow child abuse to happen & definitely not on the scale mentioned in the Panorama programme.
But think - how is Jehovah supposedly going to deal with it when basically it should be reported to the elders who often don't do much with it & very rarely I believe report it to the police. Also how are there meant to be any witnesses to child abuse - the abuser isn't likely to oblige & take a few other witnesses along is he? Hence nothing happens.
And where do the elders get their policies on dealing with this sort of allegation? From the Governing Body - who basically don't want to deal with it - hence it is again ignored - buried.....
How terrible for all those kids who have been abused or will continue to be or will be in the future!
Also when you think about over 23,700 abusers on a JW database this is terribly shocking - I had no idea when I was a witness & to think that most on this db probably haven't been reported to the police - what does it tell them - that it is okay, or at least will be ignored, if they carry on abusing?
Steven.
.
you can listen to the radio debate immediately after the bbc panorama program at.
www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/latenightcurrie.
Hi,
I just managed to get thro to the radio programme & was told my point may be mentioned but soon after the presenter moved on. However there is meant tot be some other kind of debate tomorrow at 2pm - for more info they said look at the bbc\panorama site.
Anyway I haven't read any of the above yet so sorry if I repeat a point but I was going to say that most JWs don't believe that Jehovah would allow child abuse to happen & definitely not on the scale mentioned in the Panorama programme.
But think - how is Jehovah supposedly going to deal with it when basically it should be reported to the elders who often don't do much with it & very rarely I believe report it to the police. Also how are there meant to be any witnesses to child abuse - the abuser isn't likely to oblige & take a few other witnesses along is he? Hence nothing happens.
And where do the elders get their policies on dealing with this sort of allegation? From the Governing Body - who basically don't want to deal with it - hence it is again ignored - buried.....
How terrible for all those kids who have been abused or will continue to be or will be in the future!
Steven.
.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/ .
check out this live radio link now
Hi,
I just managed to get thro to the radio programme & was told my point may be mentioned but soon after the presenter moved on. However there is meant tot be some other kind of debate tomorrow at 2pm - for more info they said look at the bbc\panorama site.
Anyway I haven't read any of the above yet so sorry if I repeat a point but I was going to say that most JWs don't believe that Jehovah would allow child abuse to happen & definitely not on the scale mentioned in the Panorama programme.
But think - how is Jehovah supposedly going to deal with it when basically it should be reported to the elders who often don't do much with it & very rarely I believe report it to the police. Also how are there meant to be any witnesses to child abuse - the abuser isn't likely to oblige & take a few other witnesses along is he? Hence nothing happens.
And where do the elders get their policies on dealing with this sort of allegation? From the Governing Body - who basically don't want to deal with it - hence it is again ignored - buried.....
How terrible for all those kids who have been abused or will continue to be or will be in the future!
Steven.
i personally like sue grafton and patricia cornwell, along with tim lahaye and jerry b. jenkins.... i like the first two as i really like the mysteries...and the second 2 for the ideas.... justwondering... lyd
Oi Mindfield - now you have made me blush!
You got your post in just after LESLEY's (my wife's) & just before mine!!!!!! - LOL
i personally like sue grafton and patricia cornwell, along with tim lahaye and jerry b. jenkins.... i like the first two as i really like the mysteries...and the second 2 for the ideas.... justwondering... lyd
Hi All,
I too like Michael Asher, like the lovely lady above (hehe - she's my wife!).
In addition I like Larry Niven (The Ringworld SF novels) plus Asimov.
Before I entered the Org I used to read alot of fantasy books but I stopped reading this then because I didn't feel it was right at the time. However now that I have left I am back into this & see them now as just grown up fairy tales. So in this area my favourite authors are:-
Stephen Donaldson (Thomas Covenant Chronicles - read before JWs)
David Eddings (Belgariad series - now looking forward to reading his other series)
Raymond E. Feist
Sheri S Tepper (I am desperately trying to get her books again since I gave all my fantasy ones away when I became a JW - sigh!)
Terry Brooks
i like you american ,aussies and other foriegners, but why are there so few british people here?.
you would think with all those people leaving the org in britian there would be more here.. come on you brits get on here, i want to see you posting.
Hi Termite,
Sorry to hear about your medical problems - it can get you down, I hope things get better soon.
If you want to chat then email me, I must admit I'm not the fastest responder in the world, but I will listen and get back to you.
Take care...
TO ALL - What a nice thread - this has been so far...
Bye
i have stated in other posts that i am a vietnam veteran.
when studying, i was told how "stupid" i was for going off to that war long ago.
even though i was often made to feel less a person because of my military service, i still was baptized and eventually, saw the light and left the borg.. i also belong to a yahoo message group comprised of fellow veterans that i served with long ago.
Hi Dakota & Happy,
What a deep & difficult topic - I enjoyed reading it. I don't think that there is an easy or right answer to this issue & you are right everybody has differing & opposing views which could be discussed forever.
Hence I just wanted to mention these few points before I go out (shopping - mundane huh!).
1. Dakota it does seem a very good thing that you had the opportunity to let a daughter understand more about her father & I agree that the JW organisation would have restricted or prevented this - which would have been wrong & such a shame. I am glad you managed to do this.
2. I can see each side of what you are both saying & myself am not sure what I feel on this subject - except to say that war is terrible & should be avoided IF POSSIBLE but equally sometimes people must stand up for what is right otherwise all good can be lost & worse atrocities performed. I am no expert on the history of this war but found your links to Vietnam facts interesting & useful - thanks Dakota (I will look more later).
3. Something to ponder - Nationalism has caused many atrocities - but then so has religion...
Steven.
i like you american ,aussies and other foriegners, but why are there so few british people here?.
you would think with all those people leaving the org in britian there would be more here.. come on you brits get on here, i want to see you posting.
Hi,
I'm Lesley's husband - she has already posted on this topic.
As some know we disassociated ourselves back in Oct 2001. At that time we both found this board extremely useful & informative & I received some much appreciated support (LittleToe - thanks mate!).
Simon - I really appreciate the fact that this board was here when we needed the info - so thanks for your hard work!
Since then I have read Crisis of Conscience which again was very helpful in getting a full perspective on the history of JWs. In addition my wife & I have had lots of deep talks about the whole area & in what direction our lives will go now. However I must say that, at least for me, adjusting to not being a JW any longer has been a much more personal, private thing (which I am still doing & expect to be doing for a long time). Hence I haven't felt too much of a need to spend hours on this site.
In addition my wife quite regularly checks the board & passes on anything useful to me.
So I am here & do post from time to time - however I am not a believer in spending all my free time posting & I must say that I think there is nothing wrong with just reading most of the time & only posting when you have something useful to add. Hence I don't actually like the word "lurker".
Well hope this makes my way of participating (occasionally) in this board known & you can now add one extra to your "Brits Counter"!
Bye..................
Own Quote "Lurkers are actually just VALID readers" - Argue with me at your peril! - LOL - that really is a joke folks!
