Posts by stevieb1

1

A Good Read - "Held By The Watchtower"

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

i've just purchased a little known but quit recent (1998) book by an ex-witness in the uk called susan thorne.

it's full title is held by the watch tower - set free by christ.

believe me, the insights provided on the day-to-day life of jw's as found in this book are eye-opening.

stevieb1

I've just purchased a little known but quit recent (1998) book by an ex-Witness in the UK called Susan Thorne. It's full title is Held By The Watch Tower - Set Free by Christ.

Believe me, the insights provided on the day-to-day life of JW's as found in this book are eye-opening. It really does give you a glimpse of what life in the congregation is REALLY like. I could only disagree with the author on very minor points. You will find these insights quite fascinating.

Of interest the authors husband, Mike was also a JW and a respected scientist. Inside you will read all about his personal doubts on WT understanding and you read a testimony of what happened when he questioned some of the pseudo-science as found in WT publications.

Both have now left the Watchtower and are Christians.

4

How is Ray Franz these days?

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

anyone know how ray is doing these days?

any more forthcoming books?

does anyone have a link to any websites where youcan listen the brci conferences that he sometimes attends.. brci - biblical research and commentary international

stevieb1

Anyone know how Ray is doing these days? Any more forthcoming books? Does anyone have a link to any websites where youcan listen the BRCI conferences that he sometimes attends.

BRCI - Biblical Research and Commentary International

4

Any Greg Stafford Updates?

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

since the release of greg's book is now a few months back does anyone know of his current situation within the organization?.

can anyone provide any juicy quotes found within his new book three dissertations and does he retract any of his statements on his jw's defended books?

stevieb1

Since the release of Greg's book is now a few months back does anyone know of his current situation within the organization?

Can anyone provide any juicy quotes found within his new book Three Dissertations and does he retract any of his statements on his JW's Defended books?

23

To All Those With The Elders' Textbook

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

i'm not an elder but i do have a photocopy of the book from the net.

a number of elders in the congregation say that i should hand it over to them as "i should not have it.

" the chief reason they give for their request is that the information therein (such as the chapters on judicial cases) is not for my consumption and would not be of any use to me as i'm not an elder in the same way a book on surgical technique would be of little use to me if i wasn't a practicing surgeon.. the claim is made that those who post confidential "to the body of elders" letters on the net are being dishonest - therefore they are not christians.

stevieb1

I'm not an elder but I do have a photocopy of the book from the net. A number of elders in the congregation say that I should hand it over to them as "I should not have it." The chief reason they give for their request is that the information therein (such as the chapters on judicial cases) is not for my consumption and would not be of any use to me as I'm not an elder in the same way a book on surgical technique would be of little use to me if I wasn't a practicing surgeon.

The claim is made that those who post confidential "To the Body of Elders" letters on the net are being dishonest - therefore they are not Christians. Nothing I said to them on this matter convinced them otherwise.

12

HELP! NEED INPUT/EXPERIENCES

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

i have come to the conclusion that so many of the society's doctrines are not scriptural (both major and minor ones) that i can no longer cal it "the truth".

i still go to congregation meetings, but i can't see myself going for much longer - a bit of a crisis of conscience.

however, there seems to be one piece of seemingly logical advice from the elders that i cannot come to terms with despite what i have found.. even amongst the elders that have spoken to me there seems to be some who do not accept the entire body of doctrines of the society, yet because they see the fruitage of matthew 7:17, 20 being expressed within the congregation and not elsewhere they stay and advise me to stay too.

stevieb1

I have come to the conclusion that so many of the Society's doctrines are not scriptural (both major and minor ones) that I can no longer cal it "the truth". I still go to congregation meetings, but I can't see myself going for much longer - a bit of a crisis of conscience. However, there seems to be one piece of seemingly logical advice from the elders that I cannot come to terms with despite what I have found.

Even amongst the elders that have spoken to me there seems to be some who do not accept the entire body of doctrines of the Society, yet because they see the fruitage of Matthew 7:17, 20 being expressed within the congregation and not elsewhere they stay and advise me to stay too. I said that there are true Christians in many churches, and they replied that it would not be right for me to worship in a Catholic Church or some other were people are disunited over what they believe, who lie and cheat and commit adultery, when there is somuch unity and love within the Jehovah's Witnesses. They say that all worship alike in the organization yet many in Christendom, even in the same churches do not always believe the same even on such doctrines as the Trinity. What they are basically saying is that much about doctrine is not that important when you consider that Christian fruits are far more important.

They brought up the matter of preaching again - saying that they have never had members of another church preaching the Kingdom of God to them before, hence no other church is fulfilling Matthew 24:14.

And once again, they brought out the need to stay away from "apostate sites" quoting 1 Timothy 6:3, 4. (mentally diseased, debates about words etc)

They also said that unity would not be accomplished if one member of the congregation believed one thing and another believed something else - like the churches of Christendom they said. They stated that they cannot find anything in Scripture that supports such a notion.

They carried on detailing the blessings that God has given to Jehovah's Witnesses in that people's lives have been changed for the better etc etc.And, that all of this could only be accomplished via an organized body of worshippers, not a disunited one.

Some of these points are difficult to refute. Has anyone else had a similar experience with this Witness-logic? How would you answer?

15

David Algar Suicide Info Anyone?

by ISP in

jw
friends

he was a co/do and i understand from another db that he committed suicide.

my wife and i are quite shocked and saddened.

isp

stevieb1

This DO is probably oe of the best speakers in the UK organization. He served in NW England some years ago.

We really need this to be verified somehow....... please does anyone know?

Latest WT Statements Re: 144,000/Great Crowd

by stevieb1 in

this is taken from the june 15, 2002 wt p.5.

quote.

"paul explains that christ's spirit-anointed disciples have a special role in undiong the harm caused by adamic sin.

stevieb1

This is taken from the June 15, 2002 WT p.5
quote
"Paul explains that Christ's spirit-anointed disciples have a special role in undiong the harm caused by Adamic sin. Jehovah "chose us in union with [Christ]," says Paul, to rule with Jesus in his heavenly Kingdom. Explaining this further, Paul says that Jehovah "foreordained us to the adoption through Jesus Christ as sons to himself." (Ephesians 1:4,5) Of course, Jehovah did not choose, or foreordain them as individuals. He did, however, foreordain a class of faithful and devoted people who would share with Christ in undoing the harm that Satan the Devil, along with Adam and Eve, brought on the human family. - Luke 12:32; Hebrews 2:14-18.
end quote
Interesting that they say that as individuals we are neither chosen or foeordained for heavenly life.

They then make an interesting application of Ephesians 1:10 on page 6 and 7:

quote:

"His appointed time for direct action to rid the earth of all oppression and injustice lies in the near future. But Jehovah actually began the process of restoration at Pentecost 33 C.E. How? By then starting to gather "the things in the heavens," those who will rule with Christ in the heavens. These included the Ephesian Christians. (Ephesians 2:4-7) More recently, in our time, Jehovah has been gathering "the things on the earth." (Ephesians 1:10) Through a global preaching campaign, he is making known to all nations the good news about his Kingdom government in the hands of Jesus Christ. Those who respond are even now being gathered into a place of spiritual protection and healing. (John 10:16) Soon, on a cleansed paradise earth, they will experience complete freedom from all injustice and suffering. - 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 11:18."
end quote.

any thoughts?

3

Latest WT statement on 144,000/great crowd

by stevieb1 in

this is taken from the june 15, 2002 wt p.5.

quote.

"paul explains that christ's spirit-anointed disciples have a special role in undiong the harm caused by adamic sin.

stevieb1

This is taken from the June 15, 2002 WT p.5
quote
"Paul explains that Christ's spirit-anointed disciples have a special role in undiong the harm caused by Adamic sin. Jehovah "chose us in union with [Christ]," says Paul, to rule with Jesus in his heavenly Kingdom. Explaining this further, Paul says that Jehovah "foreordained us to the adoption through Jesus Christ as sons to himself." (Ephesians 1:4,5) Of course, Jehovah did not choose, or foreordain them as individuals. He did, however, foreordain a class of faithful and devoted people who would share with Christ in undoing the harm that Satan the Devil, along with Adam and Eve, brought on the human family. - Luke 12:32; Hebrews 2:14-18.
end quote

Interesting that they say that as individuals we are neither chosen or foeordained for heavenly life.

They then make an interesting application of Ephesians 1:10 on page 6 and 7:

quote:

"His appointed time for direct action to rid the earth of all oppression and injustice lies in the near future. But Jehovah actually began the process of restoration at Pentecost 33 C.E. How? By then starting to gather "the things in the heavens," those who will rule with Christ in the heavens. These included the Ephesian Christians. (Ephesians 2:4-7) More recently, in our time, Jehovah has been gathering "the things on the earth." (Ephesians 1:10) Through a global preaching campaign, he is making known to all nations the good news about his Kingdom government in the hands of Jesus Christ. Those who respond are even now being gathered into a place of spiritual protection and healing. (John 10:16) Soon, on a cleansed paradise earth, they will experience complete freedom from all injustice and suffering. - 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 11:18."
end quote.

any thoughts?

3

Greg Stafford and Golden Age Books!

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

this i have found really funny.

there is a witness in the uk who operates a mail order bookstore offering books of interest to jehovah's witnesses.

this is what he says in his latest list:.

stevieb1

This Witness does not as yet have a web presence, however, his latest catalogue states that he is shortly to set up a website using this URL: www.goldenagebooks.co.uk

3

Greg Stafford and Golden Age Books!

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

this i have found really funny.

there is a witness in the uk who operates a mail order bookstore offering books of interest to jehovah's witnesses.

this is what he says in his latest list:.

stevieb1

This I have found really funny. There is a Witness in the UK who operates a mail order bookstore offering books of interest to Jehovah's Witnesses. This is what he says in his latest list:

"One fine result of all these extra books is that our critics can no longer get away with castigating us with impunity, thinking we are unlikely to reply. They are now receiving a balanced Scriptural answer, and it helps to show us that all these criticisms can be easily answered........."

Looking down the list, past all the commentaries of "Christendom" that he offers and "old light" in the form of Russell's writings one finds this!!!!!!

"Stafford,G. THREE DISSERTATIONS ON THE TEACHINGS OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"

Ahem, has this Witness read Greg's book??? Incidentally this list is widely circulated in Great Britain. Hope as many as possible order it before he removes it from the list!!!