Does anyone have a link or info on how many times the dubs have flip flopped on whether those destroyed at S & G will be resurrected? I seem to remember seeing something like they have changed their view 5 or 6 times now.
stocwach
JoinedPosts by stocwach
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Old/New/Old Light on Sodom and Gomorrah?
by stocwach indoes anyone have a link or info on how many times the dubs have flip flopped on whether those destroyed at s & g will be resurrected?
i seem to remember seeing something like they have changed their view 5 or 6 times now.
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Sodom and Gomorrah-Old light/new light, etc
by stocwach indoes anyone have a link or info on how many times the dubs beliefs have changed on whether or not those destroyed at sodom and gomorrah will be resurrected?
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stocwach
Does anyone have a link or info on how many times the dubs beliefs have changed on whether or not those destroyed at Sodom and Gomorrah will be resurrected?
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Spoke with a dub on ever changing doctrine...
by stocwach ini asked him how could it be the true religion with all the numerous doctrinal changes.
this is how he replied to me in an email:.
" another thing mentioned was the apostles (known as the governing body).
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stocwach
Thank you all for your posts!
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Spoke with a dub on ever changing doctrine...
by stocwach in{to anyone that has seen this topic under "beliefs, doctrine, and practices", i apologize for the duplication, but i wanted to make sure it got the most exposure under the "main" thread here}:.
needed to be circumcised like the jewish christians already were.
only about the circumcision issue but also on whether the gentiles were.
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stocwach
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{To anyone that has seen this topic under "Beliefs, Doctrine, and Practices", I apologize for the duplication, but I wanted to make sure it got the most exposure under the "Main" thread here}:I asked him how could it be the true religion with all the numerous doctrinal changes. This is how he replied to me in an email:
" Another thing mentioned was the apostles (Known as the governing body)
arguing whether or not circumcision is necessary since the gentiles up to
this time were not accepted into the christian congregation. It wasn't until
the majority of the jews rejected Christ that the Gentiles were FINALLY
allowed to join. (rejecting the Gentiles was also a problem in the
congregation since the Christian jews thought that they were superior to the
Gentiles ) Christs apostles were all jewish. However, when the gentiles were
allowed to become Christians, there was confusion (Confusion among the 11
apostles, Paul and the elders in Christs time) as to whether the non Jews
needed to be circumcised like the Jewish Christians already were. Some
APOSTLES believed that they should be, whereas other APOSTLES thought they
should not. You need to read verses 19-20, 21, 24-30 to get an idea of their
determination on what was really important and whether circumcision needed
to be enforced. Remember, these were the Apostles that followed Christ and
they were divided on this issue in this Chapter in Acts 15.To me, if anything was to stumble me out of the christian religion is how
these apostles that knew Christ and spoke and walked with him would not know
the answer to something as simple as this. Also another thing that is
confusing is that for 4000 years, non jews had no opportunity to be god's
covenant people since God made this covenant exclusive to the jewish nation.
Why would this exclusive oppotunity change later? As in bible times and when
certain understandings today come to light, certainly things do change
(Can't eat shell fish, pigs, jewish nation exclusive nation God dealt with,
no mention of Heaven in the old testament, animal sacrifices etc etc,,,,,)
yet all these things changed when Jesus came. Certainly one could reason
since these apostles changed their mind that everyone needed to be
circumcised and the whole circumcision issue that they couldn't be the
true religion could they? They did walk with Christ did they not yet still
did not know the circumcision issue? If changing thinking on certain
doctrinal issues is a turn off for you, then Christianity as a whole then
should be a turn off since the early Apostles changed their thinking not
only about the circumcision issue but also on whether the gentiles were
worthy of being Christians also."I haven't had time to look at the verses and context, but I wanted to post this to get everyone's thoughts and possible rebuttals. I just found out that this guy has been a JW for 5 years (his wife was raised on JW), and he said he will be open to look at the controversial issues I had brought up to him (UN, blood issue, silentlambs, etc.) I'm pretty pumped up about that, but before I get into any of that stuff in detail with him, I'd like to have a nice response to his email.
Thanks in advance everyone!
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Spoke with a dub on ever changing doctrine...
by stocwach ini asked him how could it be the true religion with all the numerous doctrinal changes.
this is how he replied to me in an email:.
" another thing mentioned was the apostles (known as the governing body).
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stocwach
I asked him how could it be the true religion with all the numerous doctrinal changes. This is how he replied to me in an email:
" Another thing mentioned was the apostles (Known as the governing body)
arguing whether or not circumcision is necessary since the gentiles up to
this time were not accepted into the christian congregation. It wasn't until
the majority of the jews rejected Christ that the Gentiles were FINALLY
allowed to join. (rejecting the Gentiles was also a problem in the
congregation since the Christian jews thought that they were superior to the
Gentiles ) Christs apostles were all jewish. However, when the gentiles were
allowed to become Christians, there was confusion (Confusion among the 11
apostles, Paul and the elders in Christs time) as to whether the non Jews
needed to be circumcised like the Jewish Christians already were. Some
APOSTLES believed that they should be, whereas other APOSTLES thought they
should not. You need to read verses 19-20, 21, 24-30 to get an idea of their
determination on what was really important and whether circumcision needed
to be enforced. Remember, these were the Apostles that followed Christ and
they were divided on this issue in this Chapter in Acts 15.To me, if anything was to stumble me out of the christian religion is how
these apostles that knew Christ and spoke and walked with him would not know
the answer to something as simple as this. Also another thing that is
confusing is that for 4000 years, non jews had no opportunity to be god's
covenant people since God made this covenant exclusive to the jewish nation.
Why would this exclusive oppotunity change later? As in bible times and when
certain understandings today come to light, certainly things do change
(Can't eat shell fish, pigs, jewish nation exclusive nation God dealt with,
no mention of Heaven in the old testament, animal sacrifices etc etc,,,,,)
yet all these things changed when Jesus came. Certainly one could reason
since these apostles changed their mind that everyone needed to be
circumcised and the whole circumcision issue that they couldn't be the
true religion could they? They did walk with Christ did they not yet still
did not know the circumcision issue? If changing thinking on certain
doctrinal issues is a turn off for you, then Christianity as a whole then
should be a turn off since the early Apostles changed their thinking not
only about the circumcision issue but also on whether the gentiles were
worthy of being Christians also."I haven't had time to look at the verses and context, but I wanted to post this to get everyone's thoughts and possible rebuttals. I just found out that this guy has been a JW for 5 years (his wife was raised on JW), and he said he will be open to look at the controversial issues I had brought up to him (UN, blood issue, silentlambs, etc.) I'm pretty pumped up about that, but before I get into any of that stuff in detail with him, I'd like to have a nice response to his email.
Thanks in advance everyone!
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Dropping off incriminating info to Kingdom Hall?
by stocwach ini am still fairly new to this site (was raised a jw from 4 til i just stopped going to meetings and moved out of the parents' house @ 17 in 1985).. fortunately i have a good relationship with my parents (i am an only child, which probably helps, not to mention the fact that they continually can't wait to see their grandchildren --3yr old boy and 7 mth old girl) even though they still diligently are full fledged dubs (my dad was an elder for many years before stepping down due to the extremely heavy load of preparing for talks, elders meetings etc, due to time it was taking away from our family).. after reviewing the numerous sites on the web and learning the truth and hypocrisy surrounding the watchtower, there are so many issues that i want to raise with the folks yet haven't mustered up the courage to do so, but that's another topic.. my question for you all is this: what do you think about the idea of anonymously dropping off incriminating documentation at the front door of the kh?
imo there are so many down in the ranks have no clue the stuff about the un, silentlambs info, etc.
someone would be bound to see this stuff, and it could cause a domino effect if received in the right wavering hands (of course the opposite i know could occur with a devout jw who immediately sees it as apostate and discards it down the toitet).. love to hear your thoughts!
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stocwach
Hi everyone,
I am still fairly new to this site (was raised a JW from 4 til I just stopped going to meetings and moved out of the parents' house @ 17 in 1985).
Fortunately I have a good relationship with my parents (I am an only child, which probably helps, not to mention the fact that they continually can't wait to see their grandchildren --3yr old boy and 7 mth old girl) even though they still diligently are full fledged dubs (my dad was an elder for many years before stepping down due to the extremely heavy load of preparing for talks, elders meetings etc, due to time it was taking away from our family).
After reviewing the numerous sites on the web and learning the truth and hypocrisy surrounding the Watchtower, there are so many issues that I want to raise with the folks yet haven't mustered up the courage to do so, but that's another topic.
My question for you all is this: What do you think about the idea of anonymously dropping off incriminating documentation at the front door of the KH? IMO there are so many down in the ranks have no clue the stuff about the UN, Silentlambs info, etc. Someone would be bound to see this stuff, and it could cause a domino effect if received in the right wavering hands (of course the opposite I know could occur with a devout JW who immediately sees it as apostate and discards it down the toitet).
Love to hear your thoughts!
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To Larc: ON ECONOMIC STUFF
by You Know inyour essay is full of generalities, half truths and down right misinformation.
you craft words to minimize advancement and preach doom and gloom.
also, your hero, larouch is long on problems and short on solutions.
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stocwach
You Know,
Bottom Line,
You have entrusted your faith in the doctrine revealed by the "faithful and discreet slave", which is the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society.
You did not practice this doctrine before becoming a JW and then discover an organization called the WTBS that shared the same doctrine as you.
Bottom line then, you are basing your beliefs on a false prophet, which the WTBS has been proven guilty of numerous times as defined in the Bible. To deny it is either ignorance or wonton disregard for the Bible's definition of false prophet.
Therefore, your beliefs are a moot point, and if I might be redundant, irrelevant.
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To Larc: ON ECONOMIC STUFF
by You Know inyour essay is full of generalities, half truths and down right misinformation.
you craft words to minimize advancement and preach doom and gloom.
also, your hero, larouch is long on problems and short on solutions.
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stocwach
test
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The Bible teaches Jesus is Jehovah?
by Rev BII injohn 8:58 is a bit lame to use as trinitarian argument.
jesus was before adam and he tells the pharisees that he's god's son.. that's what makes them mad *lol* .
you must face that they exist together too;.
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stocwach
Think of the components of the trinity-Father, Son, and Holy Spirit=God, as that of an egg: shell, yolk, and white= egg.
Sounds corny, but when you think about it, puts the trinity in a perspective that one can understand.
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WT Netherlands response (english translation)
by avengers inbelow is the english translation of the wt response (which is in dutch).
i have tried to translate as accurate as possible.
if anyone thinks that the translation is not accurate enough, please send me an e-mail.. excerpt.
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stocwach
This response is obviously the same one as the one that was dated Nov. 1st from Brooklyn as posted on a previous thread, that was distributed to all branches to be viewed by elders only.
No doubt here that is the case in this scenario.