in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.
i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.
i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.
Hi, Fleur.
I'm curious, was there any particular thing that caused you to make that change? One event that converted you or was it something of a slow metamorphosis?
It was one event, actually. I wrote about it here:
My Christian testimony is in the first link. The second link is taken from an old Livejournal entry on how I ended up incorporating certain elements of Wicca and magic (with or without a "k") with my Christian practice. Unorthodox, perhaps, but it works for me.
~Rochelle.
in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.
i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.
i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.
Sabrina,
Beautiful words and beautiful feelings. Thank you so much, Rochelle.
Thank you kindly. Just doing my job.
~Rochelle.
the first way is to be completely ignorant.to ignore the fact that the bible is a hopelessly flawed man made document, and all other reasoned argument and evidence that points to the non existence of the christian god.
this strategy basically involves living inside mental cocoon and closing your eyes to any alternative views.
the best way to employ this tactic is to perform a whole lot repetitive and ritualistic action; a whole lot of head bowing and praying etc... etc....you know the drill!.
Zep,
Yeah, i get this one. This is good. I was just kiddin' around with the orgies stuff too BTW.
I was hoping you were, but you'd be surprised at how often people aren't joking when they say things like that.
In any case, take care.
~Rochelle.
in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.
i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.
i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.
Pole,
The Christian faith is nearly 2000 years old. If you consider the NT books then you'll find that most (if not all) early varieties of the Christian faith were fundamentally based on apologetics. Either implicitly or explicitly.
Interesting. I can't speak for the original poster, but the examples you've posted are somewhat different from what I think of when I think of Christian apologetics. Miracles, prophecies, etc.... Even those had to be accepted on faith by people who weren't eyewitnesses to them, and I never saw anyone (especially not Jesus) arguing ad nauseum with unbelievers. The believers just presented the facts as they knew them and left the rest up to their audience.
When I think of apologetics, I think of how I've seen people INSIST on the scientific merits of the Bible or some other non-issue, and subsequently argue said issue right into the ground well after it becomes obvious that neither side is listening to the other. I've never seen that accomplish anything productive. Entertaining, maybe, but not productive.
~Rochelle.
in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.
i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.
i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.
I'm new-ish here (until about a week ago, I think the last time I posted here was over a year ago -- and even then, it was just one little post in a really long thread), but I'm one of the resident Christians. Who used to be a Pagan. Who was a JW before that. You might say I've had my share of experience with religion. *g*
In any case, I realized something odd about myself. The more secure I am in my own beliefs... the more certain I am that there really is no finer path for me to follow... the less compelled I feel to convince anyone that what I've chosen (or what chose me, as the case may be) is legitimate, even when I know they think that I'm completely wrong. If someone wants to know more about my beliefs, that's great, and I'm eager to share them. But since what I have works for me, it doesn't matter to me all that much if other people find it logical or not.
In other words, I think that everyone has the right to make their own choices. That includes the right to disagree with me. And if *gasp!* someone disagrees with my beliefs, that does nothing to diminish their reality and power in my own life.
Jesus's best proof of his faith was the way he lived his life: the kindness he showed even to strangers, the gentleness and strength he showed ever in the face of his own brutal death, the love that he inspired and encouraged in his disciples. I want to be that kind of person. Or, as St. Francis of Assisi stated so eloquently, "Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words."
So, no, I don't think it's necessary to make a "rational" defense of what, 99% of the time, is a very personal experience. That makes about as much sense to me as defending the fact that you've fallen in love.
~Rochelle.
.
this guy needs a friend...and a life.
definitely a few fries short of a happy meal.. http://www.flyinhi.freeservers.com/.
Oh, dear. I think somebody needs a hug.
~Rochelle.
i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.
my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.
he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.
Hi, Abaddon.
YOU are aware of that Ross. That's one of the reasons I respect you.
If this was meant for me, thank you for the compliment. If not, then just pretend I didn't say anything and go on about your business.
~Rochelle.
i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.
my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.
he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.
Frankie,
Well I'm glad at least for the fact that you are working at being a different christian than the jugdement type of christian. You know what I mean by that don't you?? I mean you don't think God is going kill people that don't believe in Jesus,, by not giving them everlasting life because they are bad,, for not beleiveing. You don't beleive that do you??
No. I can't reconcile that idea with Christ's love, so I don't try. Also, look at all the hatred, violence and pain that that the idea of One True Religion -- no matter what the religion is -- has done to humanity. That in itself is proof enough for me that it can't be right, and that judgement in whatever form it takes is best left up to God.
I totally agree! When we feel we have a lot to learn it also help to keep your mind very healthy,,just like a child always ready to learn and ask questions. But if we form ridged beliefs the mind slows down stops asking question learning becomes very hard and difficult.
True. Just look at George W. Bush. ;)
~Rochelle.
i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.
my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.
he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.
Hiya, Frankie.
Both the atheist and theist are pretty much taking their stand on assumptions. I think that to be dogmatic either way means one is forcing the facts to support their world view.
Hmm, from the looks of it, you're just your basic "reasonable human being." I respect that, and I think the world could use a few more of 'em.
I totally agree with you here. I think the best thing to do is just don't take a position were one has to suppose that he has absolute truth. Be open,,and free,, don't commit to any beleif system,,because they are all unproveable so why commit to any?
Here's where the surprise comes in: I'm a Christian. My life turned out in such a way that, for me, there IS proof of Christ's power. However, I do understand that that's not true for everyone, and I seek to do my "preaching" the same way Christ did. The only people he condemned outright were the hypocritical Pharaisees, and in his interactions with others, the greatest proof of his truth was the kindness, patience and love he showed to others. Interestingly, he seemed to save most of his religion talk for people who were inclined to listen to it.
Also, my JW experience taught me something very important, and it fits in well with what you've said: it's vitally important to know that you don't know everything. *g* Fewer people get hurt that way, including yourself.
~Rochelle.
i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.
my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.
he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.
frankiespeakin,
If the chrisitans on this board answer your question truthfully,,then it makes their God very petty,,it also reflects a jugdementalism inherent in "biblical" christianity. And so admitting to this exclusive nature of "biblical" christianity opens up a can of worms for them which is not polictically correct for this discussion group.
Interesting. But to be perfectly honest... I don't see how the atheist point of view is much better. From what I've seen in this forum and others, the general consensus among atheists seems to be that anyone who believes in God -- especially the Christian God -- is defective somehow, and that only truth is found in atheism.
By default, anyone who sees their own position as the absolute truth will exclude other points of view as false, yes? The most important thing, I think, is where you go from there.
~Rochelle.
