Posts by Sunchild

16

true friendship, true brotherhood??

by Ade in

recently we received a phone call, .

it was a sister whom we had known from the first kingdom hall we attended .she broke in to conversation concerning my health !!

asking how i was, this firstly was mightily shocking and secondly not allowed as i am da'd.knowing this sister however ( i will for no reason state that she is the wife of an elder, he being a genuine person whom i wish i could draw away from the lies ) i waited for the true reason of the call.

Sunchild

Heh. Ironic, isn't it?

When I was a JW, everybody seemed to like me. I was a sweet, obedient girl who always gave the right answers at meetings. Then, one day, it was just more than I could take. I realized that Witness life was literally making me crazy -- depression, self-hatred, suicidal thoughts, the whole bit -- and stopped going. I was also tired of living a lie: the JWs taught a lot of things I simply did not believe, and I couldn't take wearing that smiling mask and pretending that I did.

My "best friend" called me after I had been gone for awhile. We talked a bit, and I tried to tell her what I was going through and couldn't. Since it's easier for me to put things in writing than it is for me to say them, I sent her an e-mail telling her how miserable I was and that I didn't want to be a Witness anymore. Thinking back to the things I said, they were definitely the words of a person having a minor nervous breakdown.

I never heard from my "best friend" again. But at least I was strong enough to keep on going.

I know of someone else, a woman who was disfellowshipped. I know that this is true because her "best friend", still an active JW as far as I know, told me herself before I left. The disfelloweshipped woman called her "best friend" in tears and begged her for help. Her "best friend" only said, "I'm sorry. I can't help you," and hung up. The woman committed suicide shortly thereafter.

JW love. It's a sad, sick joke that's ruined -- and ended -- lives.

83

To those that believe in a god; Please help me believe

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

hey gang,.

this isn't a debate-for-debate's sake thread.

i enter with an informed but open mind.

Sunchild

Gumby,

That's right Rochelle.....god is picky. He likes you though...and all others who claim he has answered them. For those of us who have begged, cried, pleaded, searched, and still don't know our ass from a hole in the ground as to lifes questions....will have to assume god just doesn't like us.

I'm sorry if I've offended you in some way, but AlmostAtheist asked a question, that was the most truthful answer I had, and I still stand by it. It's matter of the circumstances being right; I can't tell you what makes the difference. For me, anyway, it happened when I wasn't looking, and it happened at the time when I least expected it.

Also, you're neither the first nor the last to feel like God has burned or ignored them. As a teenager, I earnestly went looking for God and sincerely wanted more than anything to please him. I even prayed to find the "True Religion," and I ended up as a Jehovah's Witness. That move cost me who knows HOW much in terms of social, career and personal opportunities; I cut off contact with all the friends I made in high school, felt guilty and depressed for going to college since the world was ending Real Soon Now (and, as a result, made very mediocre grades), lost all contact with what would have been my "worldly" college friends, passed up several opportunities to date and possibly marry handsome, intelligent young men..... All of this, I did in the name of being a good JW -- in the name of pleasing a God who actually terrified me, even though I loved him with all my heart. For my love, "God" had rewarded me with fear, loneliness, depression and failure.

Then, I learned the truth about "The Truth." Needless to say, I was somewhat embittered toward Christianity and especially its God. No, that's not quite right; it's not even close to the anger I felt. But the words I WANT to use are no longer a part of my vocabulary.

But still, a few years afterward, I've ended up a Christian, and it's the best choice I've ever made. I'm starting to understand my past now, and to see a purpose in everything I've been through. All the pain that I've been through has taught me quite a bit, and I've finally reached a point in my life where I'm capable of picking up the pieces. And thanks in no small part to my JW fiasco, I've learned that having all the answers isn't nearly as important as asking the right questions and keeping an open mind. And if it weren't for my past suffering, I'm certain that my present faith wouldn't be as meaningful.

And although I'm not God, I'm pretty sure that He (or She, if you prefer) likes you anyway, even if you don't like Him. But I think the first place you need to find God is inside yourself, not a book, a preacher or a church. Maybe if you look in there, the rest will begin to fall into place.

Peace to you,

~Rochelle.

25

Your resolutions?

by jwbot in

jw
friends

1) to lose 20 more pounds (on top of the 35 i had recently lost).

2) to give blood.

3) to get financially on track.

Sunchild

My main one is to become a better Christian. The main thing that entails is learning how to love -- giving and receiving. For me, the latter is the most difficult; I've made an appointment to see a therapist next week so that, hopefully, I can get some help in trusting others not to hurt me. I know I can't truly love anyone until I get past that.

I also resolve to get a better job with reliable hours. Retail isn't fun.

~Rochelle.

83

To those that believe in a god; Please help me believe

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

hey gang,.

this isn't a debate-for-debate's sake thread.

i enter with an informed but open mind.

Sunchild

AlmostAtheist,

Considering all the things I've seen and felt in my life that I now know were not what I thought they were, I just don't trust personal experience. My own, much less anyone else's. This seems to fall into the "I feel Jesus in my heart" category. I'm glad it works for you, but it isn't something that could convince someone else.

Oddly enough, what you've just said is exactly what I was telling you: I don't believe that any human being can convince another human being that God exists. I told you what did it for me, but I knew that it wouldn't mean much to you.

It all comes down to one moment (or a series of moments) where, somehow, God convinces you; but it has to start inside yourself. If you're scared to trust your own perceptions, it's impossible to believe in God in any meaningful way.

~Rochelle.

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Sunchild

Holy Moses, this thread's still alive?! It's amazing how much nothing can be accomplished in so many pages.

Oh, and before I forget again, HAPPY NEW YEAR, EVERYONE!!!! ::throws confetti::

83

To those that believe in a god; Please help me believe

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

hey gang,.

this isn't a debate-for-debate's sake thread.

i enter with an informed but open mind.

Sunchild

Here's a bit of irony for you. I'm as much a Christian believer as you're ever going to meet, and only a year-and-a-half ago, I felt a lot like you. For that reason, the only honest response I can give you is this: I don't think it's really possible for a human being to convince another human being of God's existence. For me, it took an event so profound that I had no other choice but to explore the path laid before me; it was the right time and circumstance for God to make His presence known.

I became a Christian because when I was very, very close to committing suicide, I felt something urging me to pray to a God I no longer believed in. I gave in to it since I had nothing else to lose and no other way out other than death. In the moment that I did, life became worth living again. Given my mental state beforehand, this was nothing less than a miracle. Call it what you will, but I chose to call it that, and I'm glad I did.

Since I don't know what your life is like (and I'm not the Almightly, either), I can't tell you what it would take to make you believer. Maybe it's just not in the cards for you; maybe you're still waiting, or God is.

Whatever happens, though, good luck.

~Rochelle.

61

Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

Sunchild

Narkissos,

I enjoyed reading your story on your website. Even though we have walked very different ways I do appreciate your open mind and your earnest endeavour to make sense of all significant experiences in your life, without rejecting any of them or squeezing yourself into any orthodox pattern. Reminds me of Paul Tillich's title The Courage to Be (fascinating book btw).

Thank you kindly. That's such a lovely compliment that I can't say much which wouldn't sound foolish in response. Still, I think I was born on the fringe, so there's really not much purpose in my trying to be normal. *g*

I've never heard of that book, though. I may have to check it out sometime.

Peace to you,

~Rochelle.

61

Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

Sunchild

Pole,

There's no need for me to do this homework. And thank you for proving my point so swiftly. You do take some early Christian texts with a pinch of salt. I have never said I have any problem with that.

It actually took me awhile to figure out what you were trying to say, since that's not quite what I was trying to get across. The point I was making was that, really, it doesn't matter since Paul wasn't God, and a person whose faith in God is strong will rely on Him to help them sort things out. Of course, this wouldn't mean very much to someone who doesn't believe God exists.

Actually, the above exchange illustrates my "different sports, different rules" analogy very well. What I meant by it was that believers and non-believers play by very different rules which are often incompatible. This makes it kind of pointless for Christians to try to "prove" their faith in an atheistic context (or vice versa) since each group tends to interpret the world in very different ways. I also think that Christian attempts to prove their faith in terms of science is often a betrayal of that faith because it tends to marginalize the value of spiritual experience, as if said experience is somehow not as good as what you see and touch. It's not less; it's just different.

Bur if you want to talk about Paul's letters, weren't they addressed to people who were already Christians? People for whom (with some exceptions) his words were accepted facts, not "proof" of some idea which was beyond their ken? If I remember right, what prompted some of those letters was a handful of people in the congregation who had introduced some rather... "interesting" teachings, and Paul was trying to keep order among the believers. It's not much different from when my pastor gives a sermon. There aren't a lot of people sitting in the pews who really need convincing.

~Rochelle.

61

Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

Sunchild

I think the writer clearly imlpies that faith is dependent on some facts such as the resurrection of Christ and that it is futile to believe in Christ if resurrection was not a fact. Isn't that apologetics? Isn't Paul (?) discrediting those varieties of Christian faith which didn't recognize Christ's resurrection? And don't modern christians have to take some of the crucial Christian texts with a pinch of salt to avoid being apologetic?

Is Paul Jesus? Is Paul God? Does Paul respond to my prayers? Did Paul send the Holy Spirit? Please talk to me again when you can prove that all of the above are answered in the affirmative.

Trying to play lacrosse under the rules of synchronized swimming will never, ever work. Neither will trying to process faith and spirituality using only the rules of the physical world.

~Rochelle.

61

Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

Sunchild

This has always been funny to me. I've heard ones on this forum claim the bible has no value in itself, is not infallable, and that there are obvious flaws. These ones claim it's the person of Jesus that's important and that reflecting his life is what a christian should strive for.......yet these same ones claim the bible and it's savior should not be scrutinized.

Well, if you're looking for me to tell you that the Bible has no value, you're not going to get that from me. I think it IS a revelation of God, albeit one that was penned by human beings, and as such, it contains a wealth of spiritual treasures... as well as a bit of human dirt. *g* Prayer and the Holy Spirit help me figure out how different things apply in my life.

Nor will I tell you not to scrutinize the Bible or Christ. I do the same -- in my own way, and through my own experience. Your experiences have been different from mine, so you've reached a different conclusion. And that's all right with me.

Peace to you,

~Rochelle.