It is interesting how much the personality of a congregation can vary. I'm sure it has a lot to do with the brothers spending the most time on the platform, and whether they're nice and laidback or dour and joyless, because that can put a pall on everybody who has to sit through their part and it sours the overall mood. In some Halls everyone is either related or else friends, and the enjoyment they get from associating at the meetings seems to make them friendlier towards outsiders, but in other Halls it seems to just make them cliquish and untrusting of strangers.
Apognophos
JoinedPosts by Apognophos
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36
When You Were a Visitor at a KH, Did Anyone Come Up and Say Hi?
by LoisLane looking for Superman ini am kind of like a puppy dog, in the aspect of liking to meet new people.
they hold out a "wonderment" to me.
new thought.
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Today's watchtower study... Ugh.
by OneDayillBeFree inwatchtower studies like today's really make me feel anger for this cult.
i mean almost all of them do but this one is one of those articles that takes things too far.. i mean they are condemning the people who are trying to help/save the earth because it's "satan's" world and instead are saying that religious salesmen with magazines are doing way more than the others!like are you f**king kidding me?another reason why i hated this study article is for what some of the young ones did in response to the study.
as one was unwrapping a piece of candy, he decided to throw the wrapper on the ground.
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Apognophos
Being a Witness was a great crutch for my inherent laziness and apathy. Why try to fix anything in this world when it's all going to be fire-and-brimstoned soon? Those poor kids in Africa will get a resurrection some day that will make up for their painful death from starvation that you could be preventing for the same cost as your monthly Watchtower donation, so give the money to Jehovah instead!
@hamsterbait: Notice how the Society NEVER, EVER talks about Jesus' poor box.
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I've Come To Realize That "Facts" Don't Mean Much If A Person Refuses To Accept Them
by minimus in...and that applies to religion as well as politics.. if someone simply believes such and such is true, it doesn't really matter whether you "prove" it or not.
people will believe what they want to believe..
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Apognophos
I have a confession to make, guys. I've never personally verified the theory of relativity, for instance by observing gravitational lensing. I've never done that experiment with the light through the slits that is supposed to demonstrate the wave property of photons (or so I'm told it does). I've never even confirmed that the Earth is in fact round. I read those things in a book as a kid, though, and a person who was older than me and in a position of authority told me they were true. So I accept on faith that they are.
On the other hand, I have personally felt the paralyzing power of a strong electric current by merely being within a couple dozen feet of a high-tension power line. When I presented this experience to a professor, he was dubious but eventually willing to concede that air itself can serve as a mild conductor, so perhaps that's what I felt. I had never learned that this could happen in any book, so I had to learn it by experience. But, you know what? Even if the professor had refused to believe that it was possible, I would still have believed it, because I KNOW WHAT I FELT.
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-17-2013 WT Study (TEMP RESIDENTS)
by blondie inunited nations http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm.
6. in what sense can jehovahs witnesses be.
residents, and of what?.
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Apognophos
Their dress and grooming often identify them as being different from most in the community. These differences have sometimes led misinformed individuals to accuse them of being, as it were, evildoers.
Imagine, judging a whole group of people, even their children, as evildoers for living differently than we do! Good thing we don't know any people like that!
As an example, some of their neighbors view as strange the brothers and sisters serving at the Bethel complex in Selters, Germany. But the mayor of the community spoke out in their behalf, reasoning: “The Witnesses who serve there have their own way of life, but one that in no way disturbs the lives of others in the community.”
The mayor went on to comment, "I still think they're hella weird though."
Unlike some other religious groups, Jehovah’s Witnesses refrain from meddling in politics. They never try to dictate policy matters to civil authorities.
Now, if you try to ban their work, you'll have umpteen lawyers sicced on you. And they'll take it to the Supreme Court if necessary. Also known as the judicial branch. But heavens no, JWs stay clear of all politics and dictating of civil policy (besides the judicial branch).
The idea that they would attempt to disrupt public order or undermine the government is completely without foundation!
Just don't ask them to defend the country they live in! Ha ha!
For example, German politician Steffen Reiche, former cabinet minister in the state of Brandenburg and later member of the German parliament, said...
Oh, forgot about that! Didn't you see how that Estonian stamp commemorated the Witnesses?! (See pg. 18, right before this study article.)
Later, one of the Witnesses remarked: “Everything she said about us was expressed in a tone of amazement and enthusiasm.”
Talk about an ambiguous statement!
"You mean, you have to wear those name tags everywhere?"
"You mean, you aren't even free to privately show affection for your spouse in the bedroom in whatever way that you both consent to?"
"You mean, you wouldn't even let your child take blood if he or she was going to die, just because the Jews were told to drain their meat before eating it?"
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Why do Jw's have to pay for CO's expenses?
by nolongerconfused inthis is something that has always bothered me!.
why do rank and file have to pay for co's do's expenses, car, health insurance, meals, etc, etc...?.
didn't the apostle paul say that all christians have to be self sufficient and work?, not depending on anyone else and cause a burden?.
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Apognophos
I don't really have a problem with a humble CO getting his expenses paid by each congregation as he passes through. And SophieG, perhaps even an expensive suit is a gift from a wealthy JW (they're rare, but they do exist). Of course, depending on the territory the CO is assigned to, it may be poor taste to actually wear such nice clothing, and he perhaps should have given it to someone else, but JWs are a little naive sometimes. I would never have noticed how nice their suit was, so perhaps they don't notice either.
I only dislike the COs who lord it over others and who the cong. treats as kings among men. The way that the R&F hang on their every word makes me a bit nauseous when the CO is obviously using his position to push his personal foibles on others as if it's the word of God.
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Whacky comments! What the craziest comment you've ever heard?
by toweragent inlast week a sister in my new hall made the following comment,.
"a brother once told me that it is better to be wrong with the organization, than to be right and be on your own without the organization.".
wow.
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Apognophos
Oh my God, that's classic, What Now?
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Chapter a day: MEMOIRS of a MANGY ex-CULTIST
by Terry inwe'll see how long this lasts.... i'll write a chapter each day.
every day.. when there is nothing left to say.....it is over.. it could end up being a book nobody will every read.
or, it might be read by a few and it might mean something to somebody.
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Apognophos
Haha, I think that story builds well upon Minimus' thread from the other day. Well, I shouldn't elaborate, it might draw the argument into your thread, and we don't need to muck things up here while you're telling us your story. Look forward to the next chapter, Terry! And I like that analogy about the movie theater, I might have to steal that in a future conversation some day....
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The ransom sacrifice contradicts the "issue of universal sovereignty"
by yadda yadda 2 inif jesus is the exact representation of his heavenly father, and if "god is love", and if there is no greater love than to give up one's own life for others, then if jesus gave up his life for mankind as the greatest act of love ever performed, why would jehovah be more concerned about his own name being vindicated and his rule being proven to be superior to man's rule than preventing untold millions of innocent persons over thousands of years from suffering and dying horribly?.
wouldn't jehovah be just like his son, jesus, and choose to sacrifice his own name and reputation out of his great love for mankind rather than permit so much suffering for thousands of years?
why would the almighty creator of the universe care so much about being 'slandered' by a rebellious spirit creature that he would have to permit so much suffering for so long?
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Apognophos
yadda yadda 2, all of your last post's points have counter-points in terms of Watchtower theology. As a break from doing other stuff, I decided to waste some time with a JW-style rebuttal below, for the consideration of whoever is interested. Note that these aren't really my beliefs anymore.
So why could Jehovah not take this principle a step further by establishing a natural law in DNA so that the more harm and suffering is inflicted on someone (eg, wilfully murdering a child), then the more damage occurs to the DNA, leading quickly to disease and death by the one inflicting the suffering on another person (eg, the child murderer's DNA begins to rapidly deteriorate and age and their life-span is dramatically cut short).
Because then people have an inherent reason not to sin. Yes, it would be good for the people who would otherwise be victims of bad people, but you don't have truly free will in moral matters if your life span is cut short by sinning more grievously. Only when the 'rain and sun fall equally on the good and bad' are humans able to act freely.
If God was so bound by his own standards of universal and timeless justice, then why is there going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous? [...] According to JW doctrine, Pol Pot will probably get resurrected and get just as much chance of everlasting life as anyone else resurrected in the thousand year reign.
"The wages sin pays is death." We all suffer the same punishment for the same crime; the punishment is an eternity of sleep. If Pol Pot didn't have a chance at knowing the truth, why shouldn't he be resurrected and given that chance? All sorts of people have come to all sorts of conclusions on how to lead their lives based on wrong information. And there are serial killers who were raised in abusive families. Only if they are resurrected in a perfect (corrected) condition, and educated about God, can they have a fair chance at being who they want to be.
And ultimately the fact that God is supposed to eventually fully intervene and will never again permit any more evil and suffering to occur just proves the point. At that point, humanity will no longer have free will.
By the end of the thousand years, and the final test by Satan, it will be totally clear who is on the side of righteousness and who isn't. Everyone will make a decision in that regard while in a perfect condition, meaning that their decision is just as absolute as Adam's and Eve's (thus why they are liable to the second death at this point). The ones who are left on Earth will never sin again simply because they choose not to. Jesus didn't sin while on earth, nor has he in heaven -- that's billions of years of sinlessness. Once the people who love righteousness are perfect, they don't need to be robots to not commit sin; they won't commit it simply because they don't want to!
The old 'better to have death and suffering than be robots' theodicy is also easily refuted by the fact that we all have reasonable limits imposed on our freedom of choice. No one has perfect free will.
It all depends on how you define "free will". Just as we do not possess physical free will (i.e., I cannot fly, despite wanting to), so we cannot act freely on any moral will that we have. But we can want to. Wasn't that what we were taught as Witnesses? It's not that we can avoid sinning, but we can try not to, and if we try hard enough, God will recognize that effort and pronounce us "righteous".
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607 - What is it all about?
by leaving_quietly insome of you here have a firm belief that 607 was not the fall of jerusalem, contrary to the wt beliefs that it was.
but, why is it important?
frankly, i just don't get it.
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Apognophos
The issue is that the fact that WW1 started in 1914 is an "all too precious nugget" to be simply discarted. If WW1 had started in a different date, this 1914 date would have long been changed or discarded, even it it meant making up some BS to justify changing 1919 to another date as well.
Well, the interesting thing is that so far in my reading, I haven't seen much evidence of the Society showing a direct chain of events from the end of the Gentile times in the fall of 1914 to 1919. See my posts in this thread on pages 2 and 3 for the confusing facts that I found. Hint: the basis for 1919 is a yeartext, not 2,520 years.
I predicted at the time that the Society would try to phase out the Gentile times prophecy in favor of just talking about the appointment of the F&DS in 1919, but lately I'm not so sure they can make this work without the weight that comes from the 2,520 years leading into the events I describe in that post. So maybe they have nowhere credible that they can go, except to stop talking about all the 20th century dates altogether.
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607 - What is it all about?
by leaving_quietly insome of you here have a firm belief that 607 was not the fall of jerusalem, contrary to the wt beliefs that it was.
but, why is it important?
frankly, i just don't get it.
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Apognophos
Yes, thanks for that, Londo111. I haven't spent much time researching 607 vs. 586 yet, so I was unaware of much of that information. I think that, for Witness willing to accept scientific reasoning, it makes sense to use that point as the "in" for debunking 1914.
But really, the whole chain of scriptures one has to cross-apply in order to get from 607 to 1914 makes little sense when viewed clearly from beginning to end at one time. It looks more like someone just randomly flipping through the Bible pointing to numbers and then adding them up.