Posts by DeWandelaar

20

Do you have zeal for TTATT?

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

who of you feels like they have zeal for ttatt and wish to spread it far and wide?

who feels that it is like a "fire burning in your bones" that you can't keep shut?

(don't worry, i love the power of the internet for anonymity)... ;).

The only thing TTATT teaches is to LEAVE something that is UNTRUE... it however does not give a foundation for the rest of your life or beyond and that scares a lot of people of (hence that is why they always ask... well... where else can we go?). That is why I am saying to some that my search for truth now truly started.

We have proof that the WTBS is false... but the fact that we know something is false does not say that we have found truth .. it just told us what is untrue en false. So we are in search again now aren't we?

I think that it is wiser to have zeal for FINDING truth then telling others that something is untrue. It does not change their believesystem since that can only done by a person themselves.

25

Why were we so fortunate to escape clutches of the WT?

by jam in

when i came out i knew of very few ex-jw's.

for years i. question my decision.

was i being selfish, couldn't cut the.

DeWandelaar

Why? Because some want to swallow the red pill... while most can not handle the truth and swallow the blue pill

268

After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?

by smiddy in

he/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.

fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.

with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.

DeWandelaar

@Cold Steel

Quote:

Smiddy: ...performing so-called miracles is not and should not be the criteria for believing in GOD, didn’t the magic practicing priests of Egypt also perform miracles? Exodus 7...according to the bible that is.

DeWandelaar: have you personally seen him do the miracles? Have you seen him waking the dead? No...it is “history” according to you but “history” is written by people with an agenda.

Well, that’s the issue now, isn’t it? Miracles should NEVER be used as a means of determining the truthfulness of any person or group. On the other hand, the gifts of the Spirit follow them that believe.

My reply:

John 3:2, Acts 2:22 are contradicting your statement. According to the biblical record his miracles where a proof of his devine nature.

Also... the "fact" that people were "witnesses" does not hold proof in itself. Like I stated before in a other comment there were recently 69 people that believed an angel of God was helping a girl that was almost dying in a car accident. The reason why they believed it all was that NOONE had seen the bishop and the bishop was NOT seen on camera. So 69(!!!) people were believing because they saw no evidence of the contrary. We all know NOW that they just did not notice the guy.

There are a lot of "wonders" in this world that get a label with "devine" interaction while studied more closely had a different reason. Also... the mind can be fooled big time.

Now in "Smith's" case it does not proof anything... IF he had the golden plates however that would have given everyone a sort of proof that at least the plates excisted (although even that would not give a proof of devine interaction since everyone who has golden plates can make a bogus language only HE can read).

All I ever hear from religious people is a whole lot of stories but you need to know that they who make a claim have the "proof of burden":

Maxim semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit

37

Excuse needed to get out of talk

by noonehome in

jw
friends

i work with the school overseer so he'll be with me all day before the meeting...so being 'sick' isn't an option.

this really isn't like me to weasel my way out of something....but i've been ridiculously depressed lately and honestly i just don't have it in me to do anything let alone put a talk together.

everytime i do one it takes allot out of me and let's just say the well is pretty dry.

DeWandelaar

Quote: but I've been ridiculously depressed lately

... and you still need an excuse?

Dude... It is a false feeling of loyalty and you are not obliged to help anyone if it costs you this much...

40

Last night the one cool elder calls me

by confusedandalone in

i figured he was going to arrange the committee and try to get me kicked out after the whole "big pile of books" labelled "take this shit".. well his call made me realize that more and more people ... elders included no longer take this religion seriously.

after he told me he heard what happened he actually laughed and said i would never expect that.

he then told me that it is apparent that i no longer want to be connected to the organization.

DeWandelaar

I have seen it in other topics of you (ConfusedandAlone) and to me it is crystal clear they all want to use you for their own benifits:

I mean, come on: a CO that calls you to get some bethelites to work but is not caring **** about your spiritual needs, parents and brothers who want to leech your money before you get DAed or DFed, an Elder who does not care about DFing you or you being lowprofile? I mean: what is wrong with these guys? It is all snake like movements that I sense in these topics.

Like I said in the other topic: please be aware...

29

Timing of the "new light" study and the upcoming annual meeting

by stuckinamovement in

jw
friends

i find it interesting that the 7/15 watchtower will be studied from september 2-29th and then the annual meeting will be exactly one week after.

.

it strikes me as an effort to emphasize the fds and their role before a big announcement.. siam .

DeWandelaar

Sometimes I think that the Apostates are more looking forward to the annual meeting then witnesses :P

134

Another story... possibly final story

by confusedandalone in

this is the exchange of text messages i had with my super spiritual brother.

it is sad... it is pathetic... it has helped me realize that i have no connection to these people anymore.

i feel free today.

DeWandelaar

Quote: Are you giving them the money? Dad is in a bind and he is worried that if you get disfellowshipped before you give him the money that his conshints with Jehovah will be marred. What is wrong with you, can you imagine how that will make him feel if he has to borrow monies from a disfellowshiped child?

WTF is that guy talking about... in their opinion you are "dead" to them anyways... they only seem to keep you alive for the "money"!

If anyone would EVER aproach me like that it would be the lost conversation I would have with that person from MY point of view... and not theirs! I mean: it would be a lack of selfrespect not to do so otherwise.

I am shocked by the fact that people treat you like this. We are not even talking about "ordinary people" but your own family. I have experienced the same with family but not in such a scale like this.

The only thing they should have is "respect" for your actions! It is not your personal duty to give money to your parents (and/or brother) but still you do. They even say that Jehovah is using you to give them money. What kind of mindjump is that? I mean... does God use an "evil apostate" to help "true christians"? The only thing they see is money and they see it like the WTS sees it.

Also I read the other story about the elder... now I have also read some other (good) topics of you and it seems to me that you are a succesfull entrepeneur (prob. with money to back that statement). If you weren't in that situation, would the elder you are talking about put the same effort in you? If you were a poor bumb would he give the same attention?... be carefull... personally I do not think they are interested in you as a person but more interested in your "usefullness".

268

After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?

by smiddy in

he/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.

fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.

with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.

DeWandelaar

@Cold Steel: have you personally seen him do the miracles? Have you seen him waking the dead? No... it is "history" according to you but "history" is written by people with an agenda. We all know the "history" of the JW as given by the JW's and as we are (fully) aware it is subject to heavy editing (and therefore flawed to say the least). Also the historybooks of all countries are subject to propaganda and do not always state the truth (they are actually filled with lies a lot of times). Is it so strange for us all to demand proof of truth? Truth can withstand everything remember?

The funny thing is that the Bible itself mocks with prophets: "acting like a prophet" was seen as "acting insane"! Now... funny thing is this: how many "insane" people that you know would tell you something and you would blindly trust their guidance? I mean: of all people in the world do you really think that God would give his word to "insane" people? The bible itself states it that way... not me!

Now a lot of people have called me insane... I think I actually might be a prophet then... and if I am: why are you trying to tell me I am wrong?

20

The Paradox of Using Miracles to Explain the Bible Accounts

by Comatose in

i've been thinking about this for a week or so.

ill try to lay it out as clearly as possible without getting to long winded and id like to hear your thoughts.. .

i know the biblical account of the flood has been discussed ad nauseum.

DeWandelaar

I God let Noah make a vessel to survive then his intentions were not to use a miracle... I mean... it does not make sense at all... What is actually more important to mention is the fact that the whole Genesis account has probably been written 600 BC. If it is written at that time then it is no wonder that you find a story about a tree with a serpent, a godlike (made in image of god) man and women, Nephilim and a flood since these stories can be found in other tales which we see as Myths.

Also the inconsistency of the Nephilim has always troubled me: the genesis account says this: The Nephilim 2 were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them.

So... the writer of the story gives us at least one reason why the flood was not at all that effective: the nephilim live after the floods as well. Also it states that the sons of God came in to the daughters of man (after the flood)! The whole reason for destroying the earth then is gone because of that sentence. "Proof (or at least the Biblical proof)" can be found later on AFTER the exodus: the Nephilim were still there and needed to be destroyed and even until the days of David there were still Nephilim. So: the flood IF it happened at a scale we read about, was not as effective as it should have been!

Now coming back to the paradox: God can do miracles and he could have easily killed the wicked persons by for example let their heart stop bleeding. He could have killed men without killing the animals etc etc etc. There is absolutely no reason why he would have used a flood for it.

268

After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?

by smiddy in

he/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.

fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.

with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.

DeWandelaar

@Adamah: I started the sentence with "in the Bible" ... that alone is already suggesting what you improved in my further writing. This due to the fact that English is not my native language. It means that I make mistakes in the texts. I am glad though that you still understood the point I was saying ;)

By the way: I DID see the Gorilla :P