SusanHere

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Posts by SusanHere

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  57

  Mormons phoned for the last time - I hope

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had a follow up phone call from the mormons today wanting to arrange for house visit no.

  2. the first visit had been a game where i asked questions and they wriggled about a bit so as not to address them -- it brought back dub memories, i'm telling you.. it went like this.... who will survive the world's judgement day?

  only mormons and exceptional individuals.. how about me?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SusanHere

  Hi, Ex.Robertson,

  Yes, I am definitely LDS. Alex has some good info. And some very off the mark info. He obviously is one bitter and angry individual and is allowing that to taint his perceptions which unfortunately he is presenting as fact when they are merely his own opinion and are, in fact, wrong. I especially refer to his statements regarding what "all the members" or "everybody" knows which is then followed by some slam. Actually, it is HIS opinion, not what "everybody" knows or thinks or believes. Free agency at its lowest, but still his choice.

  You, also are mistaken in that you said only Temple saints qualify Celestial. Actually, many will qualify, LDS and not, who never partook of Temple ordinances. Don't forget, Celestial itself has several levels.

  Also, though the work was done for many past historical figures, there is no chance of Hitler or Eva being granted any measure of glory, and certainly not godhood status. The work for the dead gives opportunities and opens doors, but the individual still has to qualify individually. Nobody gets a free ride on someone else's efforts or testimony. Nothing is guaranteed or automatic if the individual is scum through and through. The two in question will spend eternity with their own kind, and that will NOT be Celestial.

  So it is not accurate to say that merely having Temple work done wipes the slate clean and wicked people get gold stars on their foreheads and hop onto the Celestial chariot. Not going to happen. Not even close.

  I've read some of your other postings. You have a fun sense of humor. I'll pass on the look at your website, though.

  Susan
• 
  57

  Mormons phoned for the last time - I hope

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had a follow up phone call from the mormons today wanting to arrange for house visit no.

  2. the first visit had been a game where i asked questions and they wriggled about a bit so as not to address them -- it brought back dub memories, i'm telling you.. it went like this.... who will survive the world's judgement day?

  only mormons and exceptional individuals.. how about me?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SusanHere

  Hi, Ex.Robertson,

  Yes, I am definitely LDS. Alex has some good info. And some very off the mark info. He obviously is one bitter and angry individual and is allowing that to taint his perceptions which unfortunately he is presenting as fact when they are merely his own opinion and are, in fact, wrong. I especially refer to his statements regarding what "all the members" or "everybody" knows which is then followed by some slam. Actually, it is HIS opinion, not what "everybody" knows or thinks or believes. Free agency at its lowest, but still his choice.

  You, also are mistaken in that you said only Temple saints qualify Celestial. Actually, many will qualify, LDS and not, who never partook of Temple ordinances. Don't forget, Celestial itself has several levels.

  Also, though the work was done for many past historical figures, there is no chance of Hitler or Eva being granted any measure of glory, and certainly not godhood status. The work for the dead gives opportunities and opens doors, but the individual still has to qualify individually. Nobody gets a free ride on someone else's efforts or testimony. Nothing is guaranteed or automatic if the individual is scum through and through. The two in question will spend eternity with their own kind, and that will NOT be Celestial.

  So it is not accurate to say that merely having Temple work done wipes the slate clean and wicked people get gold stars on their foreheads and hop onto the Celestial chariot. Not going to happen. Not even close.

  I've read some of your other postings. You have a fun sense of humor. I'll pass on the look at your website, though.

  Susan
• 
  57

  Mormons phoned for the last time - I hope

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had a follow up phone call from the mormons today wanting to arrange for house visit no.

  2. the first visit had been a game where i asked questions and they wriggled about a bit so as not to address them -- it brought back dub memories, i'm telling you.. it went like this.... who will survive the world's judgement day?

  only mormons and exceptional individuals.. how about me?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SusanHere

  Hi, Mulan,

  Thanks for once again posting a nice response to my posting to you! I hope I didn't come across as being harsh, either, or overly critical, as that wasn't my intention. I think most people criticize either out of bitterness and anger (such as certain exMormons who post in here, who's postings are full of venom and bile that is definitely not deserved and not accurate but also not worth my responding to) or simply out of ignorance because they haven't been around a particular religion or its members enough to know. It never fails to amaze me what misinformation is floating around out there! Without the internet, I'd probably never have heard half of it.

  To the first I don't bother to respond. Pearls before swine and all that. To the second, though, I love to respond and see if I can shed some light, as others do for me regarding their religions. Yes, some missions do have cars. Here they have to. There are even horseback missions, canoe missions (Tonga), etc. It's whatever gets the job done and gets the Elders to the people.

  As for the Seminary teacher...Well, how can I put this nicely...Some are really outstanding, but some are sheer idiots. I guess another way to say it is...they are human and definitely fallible. Some know more than others. But it's a tough calling and I have to admire anybody who will take it on.

  Good hearing from you again!

  Susan
• 
  57

  Mormons phoned for the last time - I hope

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had a follow up phone call from the mormons today wanting to arrange for house visit no.

  2. the first visit had been a game where i asked questions and they wriggled about a bit so as not to address them -- it brought back dub memories, i'm telling you.. it went like this.... who will survive the world's judgement day?

  only mormons and exceptional individuals.. how about me?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SusanHere

  Hi, Mulan,

  It sounds like you have had a rough time of things since leaving your religion. Unfortunately, some people are overly-zealous in their attempts to help newly-unchurched individuals find another spiritual home and it would appear that you ran into some of those. Well-meaning though they were, it can be more than tiresome, especially once you have stated your desire to be left alone on the subject.

  As for being "blamed for everything and having to kiss up" could that possibly be partly because you were the "new kid" and hadn't proved your merit yet? Having moved many times and having therefore to change jobs many times also, I know how it is to be the new one. Also, Mormons tend, like JWs, to clique together far more than most other religions, due to the common bonds of sisterhood and fellowship unique in both relgions. Even if someone came in after you, if she were LDS and you weren't, it would naturally be easier for them to warm up to her easier than to you. Not fair at all, but human nature, which of course we are supposed to be rising above. Most of us make a real effort to do so, but some make more of an effort than others, as in all religions.

  As for Elders, I won't try to explain that, since I'm sure I'll only repeat what was already not sufficient. It boils down to one of those, "That's just how it's done." situations every religion in the whole world plenty of. The reasons make perfect sense to members, but are beyond the grasp of most outsiders who do things differently in the religion they are more comfortable with. Best to just say, "Potato, potAHto, tomato, toMAHto," and live in peace.

  The car is another matter. The Elders who drive cars on their missions are not "rich kids" from rich families. They are not allowed to drive their OWN cars, nor their family's cars. Those cars are the mission cars, and are assigned to them if they are in an area that makes it necessary for them to have one. The bike carrier on the back is not to give a false illusion of poverty but to allow them to change to their bikes once they have driven to the area where they will be going door to door that day.

  Mulan, I know you have been burned by your religion, and possibly by members of the Mormon religion, too, but please try to have the love of Christ in your heart so that you are able to give good people the benefit of the doubt rather than being so quick to judge unfairly and harshly.

  I hope this clarifies a few things for you!

  Susan
• 
  57

  Mormons phoned for the last time - I hope

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had a follow up phone call from the mormons today wanting to arrange for house visit no.

  2. the first visit had been a game where i asked questions and they wriggled about a bit so as not to address them -- it brought back dub memories, i'm telling you.. it went like this.... who will survive the world's judgement day?

  only mormons and exceptional individuals.. how about me?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SusanHere

  Virtual poverty? Yes, indeed. The missionaries are supported by their families, not paid by the Church, and are very limited in their funds. They are also limited in what they are allowed to take with them to the mission field. They do not have time to focus on material possessions or things of the world.

  As for their names, they do not use their first names, ever. Even amongst themselves. They are Elder Jones,etc. for their entire mission. This is actually a reminder to themselves that they are set apart to be in the service of God, and not there as a "civilian" or to have a good time. They are servants, sent to teach. They use the title of that calling as should all ministers who of course should also be worthy of respect by all men.

  JWs are more sophistocated in this regard? How so?
• 
  57

  Mormons phoned for the last time - I hope

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had a follow up phone call from the mormons today wanting to arrange for house visit no.

  2. the first visit had been a game where i asked questions and they wriggled about a bit so as not to address them -- it brought back dub memories, i'm telling you.. it went like this.... who will survive the world's judgement day?

  only mormons and exceptional individuals.. how about me?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SusanHere

  Hi, Philo,

  Thanks for responding. I think the difference may well be that they were discussing what for Mormons is the only desired part of Heaven, namely, the Celestial Kingdom... which makes it a different question than "who will be saved". Celestial has a far narrower road than other levels. That may be the confusion. But even Celestial is not limited to Mormon, nor will every Mormon qualify. It is still a matter of the heart, and that is and always has been Mormon Doctrine.

  Thanks!
• 
  57

  Mormons phoned for the last time - I hope

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had a follow up phone call from the mormons today wanting to arrange for house visit no.

  2. the first visit had been a game where i asked questions and they wriggled about a bit so as not to address them -- it brought back dub memories, i'm telling you.. it went like this.... who will survive the world's judgement day?

  only mormons and exceptional individuals.. how about me?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SusanHere

  Hi, if I can assist your research, I have some excellent links that you might find useful. Let me know. You are off to a good start, it seems.
• 
  57

  Mormons phoned for the last time - I hope

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had a follow up phone call from the mormons today wanting to arrange for house visit no.

  2. the first visit had been a game where i asked questions and they wriggled about a bit so as not to address them -- it brought back dub memories, i'm telling you.. it went like this.... who will survive the world's judgement day?

  only mormons and exceptional individuals.. how about me?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SusanHere

  Hi. Maybe I can help clarify this for you. The secret handshakes, as you put it, are part of the Temple ordinances, and therefore are not discussed even amongst fellow Mormons, let alone with nonmembers. They are not bizarre or strange, but are part of ceremonies loved and cherished by Mormons who are Temple-goers.

  By the way, I appreciate your comment that you are planning to show your Mormon company a good time while respecting their chosen beliefs and lifestyle. That shows excellent tact and consideration on your part, which I am sure they will appreciate as you would if visiting their home.
• 
  57

  Mormons phoned for the last time - I hope

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had a follow up phone call from the mormons today wanting to arrange for house visit no.

  2. the first visit had been a game where i asked questions and they wriggled about a bit so as not to address them -- it brought back dub memories, i'm telling you.. it went like this.... who will survive the world's judgement day?

  only mormons and exceptional individuals.. how about me?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SusanHere

  Hi. I had to comment on your comment about the handshakes being related to Charles Russel. I don't know about how JWs view CR or any of his teachings, but you seemed to imply that JWs are somewhat ashamed to have CR brought up in a discussion, and that Mormons are likewise ashamed to have handshakes mentioned.

  I need to clarify for you that this is not the case as far as Mormons go. The secret handshakes are an ongoing thing that is not something of the past, or that Mormons are desirous of having forgotten by everyone. In fact, they are a part of the most sacred of all Mormon ordinances, and are therefore, not to be discussed with anyone, INCLUDING other Mormons. They are part of the Temple ceremony, and not for general discussion.

  It is a simple matter of sacredness being respected and cherished.

  I hope this clarifies it for you a little bit so that you won't feel compelled to see it as something it is not. Thanks!
• 
  57

  Mormons phoned for the last time - I hope

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had a follow up phone call from the mormons today wanting to arrange for house visit no.

  2. the first visit had been a game where i asked questions and they wriggled about a bit so as not to address them -- it brought back dub memories, i'm telling you.. it went like this.... who will survive the world's judgement day?

  only mormons and exceptional individuals.. how about me?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SusanHere

  I'm sorry to say you misunderstood the Mormon teaching. No, Mormons do not believe only Mormons go to Heaven. This was obviously not made sufficiently clear to you, as it should have been. The correct Mormon teaching is that all good people will qualify for Heaven, no matter what their religion. And those who are not good people, no matter what their religion, will not. The Bible, AND the Mormons, say that God judges on the heart...Not on the outward appearance of either man nor church building.