Posts by SusanHere

26

Mormonism - a few points

by Amazing in

jw
friends

mormonism is an enigma.

they extol higher education, then turn right around and insult education by their farms archeology site sponsored by byu.

just how this religion ever got by as far as they did is beyond me.

I must agree with Double Edge that I really hate people who bash other people's religions. If you want to bash your own, or the one you left, feel free. But to bash the religions of others just smacks of you having a "deeply biased mindset" (towards any and all religion).

I know many of you have been hurt by religion in the past, but to assume that because of your experience all religions must necessarily be equally destructive is really absurd. If I said I hate all (pick any minority) because I saw a drunk one once and they're everyone knows they're all like that, you'd jump all over me for such illogical thinking. Yet you do the same to other religions and people tend to just lap it up and beg for more.

Double Edge is right, too, that to say you've looking into a religion for x number of years means nothing if all you were trying to do was to "nail them on their different theology". No wonder God judges on the heart and not on externals. You can carry all the church membership cards you feel like toting around, but none of them mean zilch if all they are is evidence you are on somebody's list. What counts is what is in your heart, your mind, your soul, and how those things translate into action towards your fellow man (woman, child, animal, earth, etc.).

Amazing -- Interesting name. But not an amazing posting. BOM is not fiction. It is not "easily unraveled". And yes, the average Mormon has excellent comprehension as to what it has to say.

As for the recording of our temple ceremonies, we do not chant. There are no chants. We do not chant to Jehovah's name in the temple. The recording was false.

Double Edge covered your mistakes with the tithing doctrine. It is 10%. Period. And it is between you and the Bishop. Nobody else is involved. And nobody is forced to pay. And there is no "proving" with pay stubs. I've never yet shown a bishop a pay stub or a tax receipt. Many full-fledged members are not paying full or even part tithing for reasons I won't bother to list here.

My sister sent me a WT that supposedly was more positive towards Mormonism. She thought I'd be impressed at how unbiased it was. Took me a long time to respond to her. When I did, I was kinder than the article deserved. Though it started out pleasantly enough, it soon degenerated into the typical mudslinging expected from that publication whenever it "covers" anything about Mormonism. It was NOT a positive article.

Emperor Class -- you said when talking to mormons you would open to the last page of the BOM where it says Jehovah, and they were surprised most of the time. What would they supposedly be surprised about? Do you think we don't use the name of Jehovah? We do. Do we use it as JWs do? No.

As to the poster who said he was "rushed" into baptism in a week after a "disorienting" whirlwind of "Easter egg hunt" surprise meeting changes and intense psychological pressure...Sorry, but that's utter garbage. They don't have any desire to trick anyone into baptism, nor do they baptize anyone who doesn't pass several interviews with several different people indicating full understanding and willing intention to actually become a member. And how did you manage to get six lessons in one week? Plus the interviews? My missionary sons have refused to baptize people many times, because the people were not ready, or hadn't cleared up some matter, or the missionaries didn't feel the timing was right.

Harassing phone calls? No. Calls at 11 pm -- not from the missionaries. They are in bed before then. Mission rules. Church-wide. Obviously, you are one of those with an agenda that doesn't include attention to accuracy. I hope you are happier in whatever religion you went to next.

I really don't mind honest criticism, or people stating what they themselves experienced and so believe to be the truth for everyone involved in the religion. Not every religion is going to meet everyone's needs. That's why there are so many to choose from. Find the one you like, and leave the others alone. If you really need to rip one apart, at least be sure it is one you were a member of long enough to actually have the lowdown on that church. Is this really too much to expect?

Susan

35

Inglewood cops are insane

by jelly in

what the hell is up with the inglewood cops?

i hope the cop that threw the punch not only gets fired but has criminal charges brought against him.

what makes it worse is those dumb-asses are going to make it harder for the good cops (that make up 90% of the police force) to do their job, because everyone is going to assume all cops are like those creeps.

SusanHere

As I said before, the cop is going to be hung out to dry. Guilty or not. Too bad we didn't see ALL of what actually happened instead of just the last few seconds. If we had, maybe we might have a very different opinion about it.

Someone said, "What if that was your kid the cop hit?" Well, I'm a mom, and when it comes to my kids, I'm a mother bear. Someone hurts my kids, I'm all over them. But I'm also the mom of a cop. Anybody hits him, spits on him, tries to run him down with their car, tries to stab him with a dirty needle, or tries to lure him into a trap so they can murder him (all of which have already happened to him), and I'm a mother bear to him also.

It's really too bad we have to live in a world where not everyone is nice. Not everyone allows us to treat them nicely. Not everyone allows us to treat them the way we would like to be treated. My son is a trained professional. So am I. I've worked in hospital units for years with many of my patients being psychotic due to many variables in their lives. Many of them look so disarmingly mild and harmless. Many smile when I enter their space. Many of them have attacked me without provocation when I am just trying to do my job.

One patient in particular will always stand out in my mind, because I still have the nightmares of that encounter. He was not a particularly large man, supposedly in full restraints, and supposedly sedated. Yet as soon as I was within reach, he grabbed me with intent to inflict serious bodily harm. I had to fight him off alone. I hate to think what would have happened had there been a camera recording just the last few seconds of THAT fight. As it was, I didn't even report the incident as I was afraid someone would say I had been negligent, or over reactive when in truth I was neither. I was just trying to do my job. Maybe the fact that I'm a very small-boned and fragile woman might have helped.

Yes, we need to get rid of the bad cops. But all cops are human. All health care workers are human. All the people the cops deal with are human. All my patients are human. Human interaction will never be as ideally perfect as we'd all like it to be. We aren't a society of robots who are guaranteed to have predictable behaviors, or of trained dogs who will always react exactly as expected. I'll take a cop with a brain, heart, and emotions over a robot any day. Most of them, like my son, are the finest people you'd ever care to meet. They deserve more respect than they get.

Susan

35

Inglewood cops are insane

by jelly in

what the hell is up with the inglewood cops?

i hope the cop that threw the punch not only gets fired but has criminal charges brought against him.

what makes it worse is those dumb-asses are going to make it harder for the good cops (that make up 90% of the police force) to do their job, because everyone is going to assume all cops are like those creeps.

SusanHere

Oh, yeah...And the other cops weren't blind to anything. Didn't you see two of them holding the cop back after he punched the kid? That didn't look like they were just standing around, seeing nothing, and doing nothing.

Let's be fair here. Guilty or not, the cop's going to be hung out to dry, just to satisfy all those who now have a "lynch the cop" mentality.

Susan

35

Inglewood cops are insane

by jelly in

what the hell is up with the inglewood cops?

i hope the cop that threw the punch not only gets fired but has criminal charges brought against him.

what makes it worse is those dumb-asses are going to make it harder for the good cops (that make up 90% of the police force) to do their job, because everyone is going to assume all cops are like those creeps.

SusanHere

How about waiting for all the facts before condemning the cop? Did you see the blood on his face or the blood that he was spitting out of the side of his mouth? Did you see the kid, even while "not resisting" and face-down on the car hood turn to the side and mouth off at that very cop?

Looks like there may have been far more to the story than the mere seconds captured on the video. Anybody can jump to conclusions. Let's wait for the facts. Cops put their lives on the line daily. They deserve to be heard. It should be obvious this kid wasn't the innocent he is being portrayed to be. Maybe the cop wasn't as bad as the few seconds of video made him appear to be either.

Susan

98

Why is Hope a good quality?

by Bleep in

looks like someone on this forum hates this word hope.

hope is a great thing to have for all christain.. it is one of the best things a true christain can have.. the bible gives us alot of hope.. lets use it in our everyday lives.

we have bible understanding threw research do we not?

SusanHere

Hi,

I'm only going to say that hope is crucial to all our lives and our endeavors, for without hope, we become mired in depression and despair. Without hope, there is no reason for even getting up in the morning, no chance that the day will be good, and no relationship that will succeed. Don't we all know those sour, down-in-the-mouth individuals who we all avoid lest they suck the vitality, the joy, the very life out of us? Why are they like that? Because they've given up any HOPE that life for them will ever be any better.

With hope, you know the hard times will not last, the quarrel can be mended, the failures can eventually blossom into success and sorrows of today can be forgotten in time as better memories replace them.

I don't know how anyone gets by without hope, but then again, I don't know how anybody gets by without faith, either.

Just my 2-cents worth.

9

Excellent POV film on PBS last night

by jukief in

jw
friends

i watched a very interesting and touching program on pbs last night (tuesday).

it portrayed a mormon family, the smiths, as they dealt with some very devastating circumstances.

the husband was a closeted gay for many years who ended up getting aids and bringing it home to his wife.

SusanHere

Although I'm sure to get stomped on for speaking up on this, I did want to just clarify for those of JW experience that the Mormon version of Church discipline is not the same as the JW version. Mormons do not do the shunning bit, at all. They don't shun the individual, nor do they shun the family. The Mormon disfellowshipment is temporary removal of membership, but not of fellowship. There is a huge difference. It is also not announced, so nobody knows except those the individual himself chooses to tell.

Because we expect more of our members than of the general public, and believe that God does, too, by temporarily removing membership, the person can be given time to work through whatever problem he is experiencing and come to his own decisions as to what to do. During this time, the family is expected to rally around them, support them physically and emotionally, strengthen them, love them, and help them however they can. Those members who are aware of the situation are expected to do the same.

We regard the failure of any member to be the failure of the entire Ward family, so do all we can to help each other through the rough times.

Susan

44

The Morman Heavies came over..

by tdogg in

jw
friends

..tonight to see my wife.

the kids and i stayed downstairs so she could have some quiet.

now i know what that "disbelieving husband" felt like when we would pop in to study with some sister or sister-to-be.

SusanHere

Double Edge,

THANK YOU!!!! I couldn't agree with you more, and your kind thoughts are most welcome!

Susan

40

The Morman Heavies came over..

by tdogg in

jw
friends

..tonight to see my wife.

the kids and i stayed downstairs so she could have some quiet.

now i know what that "disbelieving husband" felt like when we would pop in to study with some sister or sister-to-be.

SusanHere

Hi, Jerome,

Yes, I am that Susan you spoke with quite a while back on this board, and do have family all over the religious spectrum, including a favorite and much-loved sister who has been JW for many decades and is totally devoted to it. In her case, I actually feel it has been of benefit to her in many ways, though of course I would rather she belonged to the religion I do as I think it would make her much happier. Maybe in the future. For now she is content where she is, and I won't disrupt her already troubled life by forcing the issue.

You said it is not accurate that Mormons don't do the shunning thing. Sorry, but it is. We don't shun. In fact, those who have been df'd, or ex'd, are usually surrounded by the congregation to help them through it. We NEVER would consider making anybody "invisible" or refusing to even say hello. That is monsterous.

You said we no longer believe "negros bear the mark of cain" and have corrected our literature. No, actually that doctrine has not changed. The only part that has changed is that the Priesthood has been extended to include them, but the reason for that is definitely beyond what I would bother to go into here since belief in there were three limitations on the descendents of Cain having that restriction, and only Heavenly Father could know when the necessary ones had been fulfilled so that it could be lifted, as we were all praying it would be. Funny how this issue was a total non-issue to our many black LDS members, and still is. If it isn't so difficult for them to deal with, why would it be for you when you aren't even LDS so it can't possibly affect you in the least.

You said only Mormon males go door to door. NO. As I told you before, women also go door to door on full-time missions. And older men and women can also be called to serve full time or part time. My son married a sister who had served a full-time mission. Wonderful lady. She is definitely a woman. My Bishop and his wife are currently serving full time in South America. She is definitely a woman, too.

You said we "consider it okay to 'lie' to non-Mormons in certain instances. Would you care to give an example of that, since I don't believe that is true. My missionary sons were never taught to lie, nor did they ever find it necessary. They simply tell the truth and allow the listener to accept or reject. If it is a subject they cannot discuss, such as the details of sacred ordinances beyond what a nonmember has any reason to know and which would only be pearls before swine, they simply say it is not something they discuss. Perhaps to you that is a lie or an evasion. It is not. Every religion has some things that are sacred to them which is nobody else's business. So does every family. So does every individual. Not everything has to be shared in detail just because some outsider asks. Want an example? How about asking your minister to share with you exactly what he and his wife did the last time they shared physical intimacy, IN DETAIL. Think he will tell you? Only if he is a pervert. Think you had the right to ask? Only if you are a pervert.

As for the supposed vast amounts of original documents concealed from the public and with only limited access ... When was the last time you held the original Declaration of Independence in your own hot little hands? Is the Government being evil because they don't pass it around to everyone for them to hold, for babies to drool on, for people with colds to sneeze on? I don't think so. Important thing, rare things are ALWAYS put in temperature-controlled, light-controlled, restricted access environments. Personally, I'd love to go hold the Hope diamond, and see how great it would look on MY hand, but I rather doubt I could get the people in control of protecting it to let me do that. Do you have a clue how many original paintings are kept in the lower vault of the largest art museums in the world? Most of them have half again the number of paintings on their walls down in their vaults, and many of those have not been out of the vaults in decades for anyone to view. Guess they must be trying to deceive the public, huh? Or are they merely protecting what they know is valuable and cannot be replaced? Yeah, I think that's it. And that's what we do, too.

You said, "A loathing for Ex Members even to the point of informal shunning." Didn't we cover that? We don't shun anybody. Our leader said, on nationwide TV during a Mike Wallace interview, "It is better to be a good Baptist than a bad Mormon. When the Baptists come to town, I've got a few people I'd like to introduce them to." He was serious. Interesting, though, no Baptists went to him to get those names. An opportunity missed on their part.

So you see, your "problems" are really straw men. No substance at all. If you don't like us, fine. Don't. But don't base your dislike on such drivel.

Hope this helps. Good luck and God bless!

Susan

40

The Morman Heavies came over..

by tdogg in

jw
friends

..tonight to see my wife.

the kids and i stayed downstairs so she could have some quiet.

now i know what that "disbelieving husband" felt like when we would pop in to study with some sister or sister-to-be.

SusanHere

Double Edge is right...Though interesting, the Ex-Mo sites can't really be taken as literally as some would like them to be. The posters on the Ex-Mo sites have their own axe to grind, based on their own unique (sometimes grossly exaggerated) experiences within the LDS community. Firsthand experience is always the best evidence.

Double Edge is also right in that many people like to slant or distort things they've heard from someone else about Mormons to make the entire religion look kooky or weird or way out there. Actually, that often backfires when people find out through their own experience and efforts that such lurid tales are far-fetched at best.

Imbue, Mormon women don't cry at meetings out of any oppression. Nice try, but won't fly. Impossible for women who are educated and encouraged from birth to consider themselves literal daughters of God to allow anyone to oppress them. Especially since Mormon Priesthood requires men to honor womenhood, protect women, and lead their families only with the power of "love unfeigned". Which means, no unrighteous dominion allowed. Any woman who does allow it is a fool, and the blame is her own. She'd be oppressed even if not a member of any religion. No true LDS woman is going to allow ANY man to oppress her.

BTW, Priesthood is not considered anything that puts men above women, but only something that can help a man elevate himself to that level where a righteous woman will have arrived at on her own. Personally, I rather enjoy that concept!

As for collecting fast offerings weekly, no. That's something done only once a month, on the first Sunday of the month. But if that is too much for them, all they have to do is ask not be be contacted next time. And if they should have an actual need for assistance due to illness, etc., then they need only contact their Bishop to receive aid. That's what fast offerings are for...To aid the needy within our own congregation and community.

And lastly, yes, much of how the day to day is handled depends on who your Bishop is since there are many little details of congregation life that are left up to them. They aren't robots, and neither are we. All LDS are taught to think for themselves, to pray for themselves, to study for themselves, to understand God's will in their own lives. We think for ourselves. Shocking thought to some, I'm sure, but not to us.

And no, we don't do the shunning thing. Disfellowshipping and excommunication are done only as necessary, but are not punitive in nature. One of those things where the same terms are used as are used elsewhere to mean something very different, disfellowship and excommunicate obviously not being at all as JWs experience it, from what I've read on this and other boards.

Hope this helps clarify a few things! Take care and God bless you all!

Susan