Posts by Hadriel

20

KM 2005- Society discourages brothers from donating to Tsunami victims $$$$

by Witness 007 in

sitting in the hall i was shocked when i read this article.

kingdom ministry 2005 nov {after the tsunami and new orleans desaster witnesses sent millions to help brothers in these areas marking their envelopes "for the tsunami victims" etc.

the society realized since there are few witnesses in tsunami ravaged countries this money would be wasted helping muslims.

Advice needed

by Peony in

jw
friends

can someone tell me the scriptural basis (according to jw's) for shunning disassociated ones.

only asking because i don't remember (probably wasn't that interested) i'm sure the shunning in the scriptures was just applied to disfellowshipped.

i've only been out 3 years but i seem to have forgotten any scriptures or reasoning!

Hadriel

I don't know your beliefs but unless you are denying Christ they have zero basis for the shunning. Buptkis.

33

How to spot faders or "closeted" apostates in a congregation / meeting?

by nevaagain in

jw
friends

so i am awoken for several years now (never really bought the cool aid) but for family reasons i am still enduring everything.

but my wife knows ... .

anyway so yesterday we had this boring meeting and as i was sitting there trying to make time pass faster i looked around me and i thought who else feels the same as me and is completely bored?

Hadriel

At this point I honestly believe they'd be better coined "PRE-FADERs". Why do I say that? Well I think of myself. It is really really hard to listen to the indoctrination when you are fully awake.

So those that are say irregular or otherwise may not be Faders but are actually pre-faders. They may have some serious doubts but we've had it beaten into our heads for so long that many even with serious doubts cling. You can actually I believe rekindle their spirit if not careful as they'll feel "Satan is attacking".

To date it has been better to say things like "boy that's tough to swallow" or "I wonder what scriptural basis was used for that"?

Meaning questions that are platonic in nature but force the person to honestly think about it. This has happened twice so far with me. If they are in "PRE-FADE" you'll have them coming back to you, saying "you know I checked this out and guess what I found?".

Even at that point I'd still be careful but see the onus is on them at that point as they contacted you.

14

Advice needed

by Peony in

jw
friends

can someone tell me the scriptural basis (according to jw's) for shunning disassociated ones.

only asking because i don't remember (probably wasn't that interested) i'm sure the shunning in the scriptures was just applied to disfellowshipped.

i've only been out 3 years but i seem to have forgotten any scriptures or reasoning!

Hadriel

1 Corinthians 5:11 is the primary basis or I should say it starts there. In this chapter the congregation in Corinth is being counseled to not associate with a man that is engaging in incest. This text also includes various other sins there in vs. 11 to show that you would not want to actively associate with those practicing these things.

Two letters in this scripture are the undoing of the organization for starters..."IS". So this scripture would only apply if the person "IS" practicing these things. Again the account here this man was belligerent. Essentially Paul is saying what the heck are you guys doing this guy is bad news.

Less would have issue with this doctrine if the scriptures were followed as prescribed here. See in that time there were no special blue envelops headed to a headquarters somewhere. When the congregation saw such behavior they were to limit their contact. Quit hanging out and so on. Essentially quit acting like there's no issue going a long as they always had with this person.

The kicker here is that as described by others 2 John 1:10 has been lumped in with this however there's little if any basis for doing this. In 2 John this was about those that were denying that Christ ever came. The Jews had preached about the Messiah coming for years now that he was there some were saying he really wasn't who he said he was. It was as simple as that. They denied that he physically came in the flesh.

This was a problem obvious as Jesus was changing things and if these folks didn't believe he was real then they obviously wouldn't follow his teachings.

I would say there are very very few "AntiChrists" that are disfellowshipped. Most are for fornication. In no way someone that commits this sort of sin is the AntiChrist.

Knowing this why in the world would the organization make this large stretch?

It's simple really...silence. It is important to silence ANYONE that brings constructive criticism. This criticism is postured as "poison", "deception" and "apostate lies".

What is is really though? Often nothing more than past doctrines that have been completely abandoned with little or in most cases NO explanation.

Hence this information from their own literature is so damning that they most go beyond the scriptures and letting the local congregation handling the matter to weaponization. An acute cutting off to silence you from speaking the truth.

33

Urging More Lurkers To Sign Up

by freemindfade in

i have seen a lot of new posters intro stories on here, also updates from those who have been around for a while.

i just want to take 1 post to beg those reading to speak up.

it was a big turning point for me and one of the best decisions i made.

Hadriel

Well said @Smiddy well said sir.

32

JW Child Abuse Documentary

by cappytan in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulswb2avxvc.

let's set aside our differences for the moment and appreciate this excellent documentary cedars put together that should prove to be an invaluable tool in helping to expose the child abuse issues in the organization.. i was humbled to be able to help with this project on such an important subject, though my part in it was insignificant..

Hadriel

For all those that think I'm evil and hate Lloyd just know that I put a bug in some ears about televising it at least in part. I have no way of knowing if that will happen but I did my part.

Like I've said since go, his on camera persona is superb.

33

Urging More Lurkers To Sign Up

by freemindfade in

i have seen a lot of new posters intro stories on here, also updates from those who have been around for a while.

i just want to take 1 post to beg those reading to speak up.

it was a big turning point for me and one of the best decisions i made.

Hadriel

Well @Simon generally speaking I'm not shy nor am I fragile but early on in this journey I'm not embarrassed to say I needed this forum. I needed it more than I realized.

Very serious when I say I'm more than thankful that it's here. I get super busy here and there you would understand why, however I do my best to give genuine comfort and let folks know I'm here if they need something.

A handful of you guys did that for me. Don't want to get overly sensational here but if we can't be decent to one another what the hell is the point?

14

AustralianRoyal Commission is big news in oz

by sherrie11 in

the catholic church case study28 is currently a major news item here in australia.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/mar/01/george-pell-wasnt-much-interested-in-stories-of-abuse-by-priests-which-was-lucky-for-his-career&ved=0ahukewjjq_xlvqhlahxml6ykhdm0bdqqfghumac&usg=afqjcnfi_zb-5ibnlx2sw02siwh8i9s1ha&sig2=mmowhxclxmgu1wohyo7ofw.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/mar/02/was-george-pell-now-scourge-of-the-vatican-once-hoodwinked-by-all-around-him&ved=0ahukewjjq_xlvqhlahxml6ykhdm0bdqqqumiizac&usg=afqjcnfx3qszc7zlocm8aw9h6j8vga_0hg&sig2=xkexfa7lfa6qjnlazwh8da.

Hadriel

Really valid point there Paul.

38

Fading is never 100% successful is it?

by nicolaou in

mum phoned last night to see how we all are.

after fifteen years away from meetings and my old jw life you'd think my fade could be called 'successful' and for the most part it is.

.. my resentment at being lied to and having wasted over thirty years of my life has left me like a glass of water full to the brim, it only takes a tap to make a mess.

Hadriel

@nicalaou things for the bright outlook LOL.

It's been less than a year and I've already realized that's exactly what we're facing. It will never end sadly. I've resorted to carefully pointing out watchtower literature that is just nutso to get my shots in. I figure they can't say much if I say "I wonder why we printed this?".

This accomplishes two things. Allows you to safely force them to accept the nut job stuff they're essentially supporting or have supported. Secondly gives them pause to think badly of you as if they are even remotely reasonable they'll be able to see how it could cause anyone to stumble.

17

Elders & Ex Elders, did knowing sins of congregation members change how you treated them?

by Wasanelder Once in

when you found out all the sins of fellow witnesses did it effect how you treated them?

it was shocking when i found out the range of bs these people did to each other.

i don't mean sexual abuse, i mean fraud, theft, infidelity and more.

Hadriel

..ha ha don't ask how I know this :)

to your question. yeah it is tough. the big fornication isn't remotely the most difficult things to be aware of. ppl blow it.

The fickle things are what make you wonder about folks. You mentioned some of them. it is an eye opener for sure when you come to know the happs. you quickly realize most have two personas sadly.