This can never top Tom's "Dick & Harold" story, but it reminded me of my own cereal boxtop story, however lame.
In 1980 everyone at my table knew I was leaving to get married. Betty Crocker TM was offering free silverware sets in exchange for box top points from GM cereal boxes. The idea wasn't new, of course, as we all knew that there were other Bethel couples who would surreptitiously rip the tops off several boxes during the final prayer. The competition was fierce, but my table got up a small task force for a few days, and left me with enough Betty Crocker TM points to get 8 full place settings, along with various and sundry steak knives, soup spoons, serving spoons, etc. Enough for a 40-pound box of high quality (stainless steel) silverware, all delivered to 124 Columbia Heights. Betty Crocker TM had a "one-offer-per-family" rule, which I worried would be invoked against me, since we all had the same building address.
Within a couple weeks I recall a related breakfast announcement about being more careful when tearing off the cereal boxtops so that the packages could be re-used to consolidate the partially empty packages.
(Some [un]settling of contents may have occurred during shipping and handling -- not to mention fighting over boxtops with Sister ...[so-and-so]...)
Greg
Gamaliel
JoinedPosts by Gamaliel
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Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
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Gamaliel
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Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
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Gamaliel
I don't know anything about the Pakes, except that I was invited to the wedding, and I calligraphed the invitation for them. (I just ran across it last week.)
I did like Wynne, and considered her a pretty good friend. Her intelligence was a breath of fresh air. She could laugh about things (and make fun of things) that JWs weren't supposed to, and not feel guilty about it. My roommate Randy M knew her from the Computer Dept, so the subject of conversation very often ran towards the ludicrous methods of trying to run a Computer Department with a decision-making process that let Bethel seniority win out over computer experience (and common sense).
Greg -
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Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
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Gamaliel
Something like that happened to me ... I think.
When I started dating my wife-to-be, I moved into her congregation (while I was still at Bethel) where there was a "Bethel elder"/"Cong elder" (Elder X) originally from a Midwest congregation that was not far from "back home". There had been recent discussions of "elderhood" although I was an MS and had told them I would turn it down. I was beginning to think that even that responsibility was too dangerous. I had regularly been giving hour talks, and was often invited to give talks in other congregations around the city. I was told that this didn't sit well with this local Bethel Elder X.
C*ro Aul*cin*, a fairly liberal thinker at the time, got word to me that this brother X was out to get me. The thinking was that he (X) might be asked to leave Bethel soon due to his wife's health problems and he desperately wanted to bag an apostate to earn potential "spirituality" points to win his request for them to stay. This same story got back to me from another Bethel elder in the Home Office who had also "turned in" Warren, although I later heard that this other brother apologized because he had thought he was doing it for Warren's good.
I started getting unexpected and not-so-friendly visitors from Bethel for my hour talks (including a Circuit Overseer who "happened to have some time" on an off-week, a brother from Writing, but not one of my friends). I also started getting assignments every single week on the Service Meeting, twice my allowance of TMS instruction talks, and was often asked to fill in for many impromptu talks of this sort. If there was any talk on the subject of "Organization" I would get it (and these were getting common in 1980/1). I guess if someone suspects you are an apostate, the best way to catch you is to make sure you have infected the whole congregation first. Collateral damage.
I knew some sisters from the elder's home congregation. One of those sisters sent me 4 little booklets that were anti-JW in the extreme, but mostly on account of Trinity and Hellfire doctrinal differences, and several problems the author had with Russell and Rutherford chronology and Watchtower history. The sister said that these were from a Bible study and they thought I would have better resources for answering the questions. I did respond, but it was very easy for me to support the Watchtower view of Trinity and Hellfire, because I didn't believe in either of these doctrines, and I could give the usual line about imperfections and mistakes being rather meaningless because, after all, it's Bible we should follow, not men. I knew better than to admit to actually reading these booklets, but it seemed extremely odd that someone would think to send "apostate" material to 124 Columbia Heights in 1980.
No one asked me about the booklets, but I had immediately passed them to my soon-to-be wife. She was a "Pioneer" but already a liberal, non-conformist. So I'll never know if a housekeeper or Bethel spy had already searched for them. In early 1980 nothing would have surprised me!
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Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
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Gamaliel
Warren,
You said:
"Greg had gone ahead by a few years and prepared a house for me."
That sounds a bit too Christlike for me. [lol] "In your brother's house were mini mansions, otherwise I would have told you." (John 14:2, The Misapplied Translation)
You added: "I was already considered a token Bethelite because of frequent visits on weekends (yes, I could afford to fly up for the weekend and buy all the beer)."
And that 5 gallon bottle of Chivas or Seagrams (only partially disguised under a lampshade) sure was popular in a 4-man Towers corner room. (That's a lamp to get "lit" by.) As I recall, 3 people finished 5 gallons in the 4 weeks we spent in Europe. I hope they shared with their neighbors. Those guys would have gladly run a still to make their own Bethyl alcohol.
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Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
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Gamaliel
Tom, I know that there were many more of these stories, too. But it was so unbalanced. The unfairness has always made me angry. Well, NOT ALWAYS, because I was also blinded by the "privilege" of getting the advantageous "long end" of the fairness stick. You had guys sweating it out between bells on some floors and then some floors where my roommate and I were doing exactly what we wanted to do - and it was easy work. I did artwork and graphics, and he came in to work in the new computer dept. (And did I mention, we both had air-conditioning.)
I was always allowed to take a walk back to 124 by just telling Bill Gehring I wanted a little extra time to talk to someone in 124. (Napolitano, Rusk, or Rinehart in Writing - or Bert Schroeder across the street from them. And they had no problem taking an hour to talk.) Bro and Sister Schroeder had set me up from day one at Bethel to be a friend of them and of their son, and invited me to parties in their room where he always managed to grab some great musical talent and served food that would have taken me several months to pay for. Schroeder even gave me access to his office while he wasn't there. He had a couple of "ego" research projects for me to work on, and he had some references in his office library for them. Of course, for a while, I thought this was a great privilege, but Napolitano and mostly Rinehart were the only ones who really understood what was behind my questioning of things I'd run across in research.
With them, you learned to develop almost a second language of speaking about things when you both knew what you meant, but without truly saying it in such a way that would cause trouble for yourself or the other person. After a while, one could use these same techniques to give a talk on 1914 or Organization and never say anything you truly felt was wrong. But then you'd realize that only your own wife or one or two members who were already clued in were really understanding what you were saying. I felt like I was in a strange world within a strange world. I look back, amazed at how long it really took to realize that the ENTIRE direction was wrong.
I like your train story, except that I can't believe I stayed on in the wrong direction for so many stops. It's like I was already explaining to others that these stops can't be right. But I wouldn't get off myself. I gave it an extra 2 years even after Bethel.
Greg -
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Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
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Gamaliel
Warren,
Can't take credit (or blame) for "Betty Botter". There's even a version on Wikipedia. It was one of those many ditties you learn just to help you get through the long days pioneering in the "boondocks" where 2 of you sit in the car while the other two make a return visit lasting 2 hours. And then you remember that you need to bring magazines to someone on the other side of the county. Plenty of time to find spoonerisms in all the kingdom songs, learn "classical" harmonica with Iver Strandberg. And make up your own versions of the Watchtower and Awake.
You said: "Sam and the savages" is still one of your favorites. I performed that one at a Gilead student party and then one brother who knew some of my "parodies" wanted me to show my "fake" Awake! magazine covers. ("Awake?" -- by Pastor Bedtime) I had to refuse to show it until more people had left because ... well... you know, "Awake?: was bound to produce volumes of trouble in the wrong hands.
Poor old Drew. For all I know he might be a changed person and a contributor to this site by now, so I personally wouldn't tell about the more infamous of his youthful indiscretions. So -- YOU tell it!
It's true we were all monetarily poor at Bethel. But then, as you know, if you play your cards right, (I mean live cheaply enough) you can save up all those allowances for 3 years and travel to Europe for 4 weeks. (This assumes your brother sells his business, comes to Bethel, and travels with you in case you need a little extra spending money. Fortunately Dean Songer gave me some extra vacation days to spend in Europe if I would go to the Bethel Branch in Athens and help them set up some "pre-press" facilities. I'll bet you'll never forget ... what's-her-name ... that Greek sister who turned down the attention of several Bethelites at once while we were there. She sure turned the tables on the usual S.O.P. for male Bethelites. LOL.
Of course, I can't agree that they were ALL poor. Remember when Bert Schroeder told us we could tag along with them for part of the Europe trip? Our accomodations would have gone from "one-half star" hostels to "four-star" if we had taken him up on it.
Bro-for-real, Greg -
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Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
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Gamaliel
I forgot that incident Franz told about Robert Lang.
There is a similar story that my brother Warren let me know about back around 1980. A JW couple who were good friends of Warren's from a local Brooklyn congregation were upset about a judicial incident that affected them. The wife is a registered nurse and helped care for an elderly brother who was about 90, maybe 91. This old brother, born around 1890 had been an active JW perhaps as far back as Russell's colporteur days. He knew the doctrinal history of the JWs and he was beginning to express himself that the class distinctions set up by the Watchtower doctrine on "anointed" vs. "other sheep" was quite artificial.
This man, Percy Harding, was considered to be one of the "144,000", and was promptly disfellowshipped for apostasy. In some ways he was disfellowshipped for thinking it was OK to be honest in front of elders. But one of the elders judging him was the ever-so-sensitive xxxxx xxxxxxx from the Bethel Writing Department.
So Warren's friend's wife (and another sister providing care) were also forbidden from continuing to help this brother, who was beginning to have trouble walking up to second story brownstone apartment. He needed help getting groceries, preparing his food, cleaning, and other types of care. Having been a JW for nearly a century tends to isolate you from any friends and family outside the JWs so he was still fairly dependent on JWs, and it was a bit late in life to go out and make new friends. When Warren told us about this threat to disfellowship any JWs who tried to help him, my wife and I were happy to go over to visit Percy once a week, coming from Queens.
The man was amazingly sharp, and was happy to find someone who could speak to him about JW doctrine within his own context and references. On his own, he already had the outline of all the major things wrong with JW doctrines. And Percy understood where organizational policy in a religion overstepped the bounds of Christianity.
We kept up the visits, and a real friendship grew. Of course, I had it easy. We'd pick up some groceries on the way, then I sat there and discussed doctrine, while my wife helped out with cleaning, kitchen work and the like. But all of us felt upbuilt by the experience, and what a negative "witness" the organization gave of it's supposed "love". The JW organization proved itself to be a conscious-less, cold machine. That couple where the wife -- the nurse -- was threatened with disfellowshipping if she continued to help Percy, were helped out of the JW mind-trap by this same incident. And they are still excellent friends of Warren's. I last saw them visiting Warren in the hospital just a couple months ago.
Ray Franz also made regular contact with Percy and, of course, they understood very well what they each were going through. When Percy died a couple years later, it was not with bitterness against the JWs. Yet, it's hard to imagine just how much of this man's life had just been ripped out from under him. But his last few years were years of mutual encouragement and he enjoyed finally being able to share both his good JW memories, and the memories he previously could share with no one. (These included some very ambivalent feelings towards Rutherford, for example.)
I think I owe Warren some overdue thanks for introducing us to Percy!
Greg -
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Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
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Gamaliel
Dave's (seven006) Bethel visit stories are available from this page:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/member/5756/topics/3.ashx
Or go to the individual links below:
My two week consulting trip to Bethel (the beginning of the end) Part 1
My two week consulting trip to Bethel (the beginning of the end) Part 2
My two week consulting trip to Bethel (the beginning of the end) Part 4
My two week consulting trip to Bethel (the beginning of the end) Part 5
MY CONSULTING TRIP TO BETHEL (starting over) PART 6
(As promised) BETHEL TRIP part 7. Loosing my balance
(Can't find part 3) -
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Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
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Gamaliel
I believe that I know pretty much how you feel, and I believe that Tom and Randy and Warren and others also know how you feel. I think a lot of us former Bethelites still come across as a little too enamored with their own life as a Bethelite. We are "unrepentant". It still sounds like we are proud of our relationships and friendships with some of the same people that we can also see as "evil" from another perspective. So how can we still "revel" in the memories?
I'm responding mostly to these comments by sf:
"As you men all recall your glory days, has it dawned on you the horror and confusion so many of us as innocent and helpless children, were going through and/ or ABOUT TO GO THROUGH, as a direct result of twisted doctrine and lethal policies, due to our parents FOLLOWING YOU?"
For me, these were my days of growing up. I grew up in Bethel, a dysfunctional family. I was naive. I was too easily impressed by those I believed were spiritual leaders. But I survived. And I look back on "how I survived" without remorse. I lost nearly all my friends. I was heartbroken about so many people I loved that I couldn't speak to anymore. During that time I had a JW literally spit at my feet even though we were formerly close in our congregation.
My own parents, of course, stopped speaking to me for about a decade. I mean completely stopped! Years after leaving the JWs, I was nearly killed once when a car ran up on a sidewalk to throw me across the intersection. A year or so after recovery, I attended a funeral for a non-JW uncle, and when one of my parents started to apologize for their silence during that terrible episode, the other parent shot a scolding look that kept BOTH parents out of my life again for another few years.
I also know that, like many others, I lost several years of normal social growth and educational opportunities. I quit High School when I was still 15, to begin pioneering for a few years in advance of 1975. I missed education terribly and didn't start up again until a year after I left Bethel - 8 years of my life that I'd never get back. Raised as a JW I could probably count another 20 years mostly lost in service to an organization. I also helped bring several families into the organization that I can never help back out. I tried, by calling a couple of them and it just seemed to make it worse. Someday, I might hear that one of their children died from the organization's myopic view of medical treatment. Or, almost as bad, they live their life wasted in service to the "machine" that built itself up around a magazine (and vice versa).
But Bethel is a lot like serving tours in the army. Impressionable kids who think too little of their sergeants (and too much of the generals and presidents who got them there) STILL have many great memories of their time with the friends they made. Kids may end up going into the service of some imperialist and/or fear-mongering national organization, or it might always be a "just war", but the kids don't know the difference. And more importantly, does even the murder and mayhem of war erase all the good memories of what we did and how we coped with our own naive incompetence? Or how some were fortunate enough to be put in circumstances that helped us find our way out? Does it change the people we knew as friends?
I am still thrilled every time I hear of another Bethelite who makes it out of that place with few visible scars. I know what they and all other former JWs lost. Some Bethelites may appear to have lost very little from the time they spent there. But a lot of them more obviously lost much more because Bethel represented a path of a "life investment" that precluded other careers. Many cases were much worse than mine, but I know how close I came to disaster. I didn't use my spare time at Bethel to prepare for a life outside, because I thought it was my life's career. I ended up attending all the meetings of TWO congregations, and I used my spare nights to finish the Aid Book and a hundred other Wt publications. When I thought that this still left me enough free time, I auxiliary pioneered a time or two. Fortunately, this stupidity burned me out soon enough. It made me look elsewhere for spirituality.
That said, I agree with the danger of seeing these days as "glory days", when we were in the heady height of our youth. It's possible to forget that it was all "loss". I don't actually forget that it was loss, but it's probably not easy to convince others. Still, I don't fret over it. What's done is done. I'm sorry for supporting it, but I didn't know any better and I'm not beating myself up for it. I choose to remember the good times along with the bad, accentuating the good times.
I'm not saying we don't filter our own memories, consciously or otherwise. But I didn't become a different person after leaving. When I was in Bethel, this caged bird "sang" in there, too. Maya Angelou might have said it was a coping mechanism that would have caused difficulties for others to interpret. ("I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings." 1969.) But I think, for me, it's a lot simpler. I'm like the "Bird Man of Alcatraz" remembering BOTH the birds and the cage, but I choose to LIVE with the better memories.
Betty Botter is my true literary hero. I like to repeat the following to myself (5 times, fast):
Betty Botter bought a bit of bitter butter. But, said Betty Botter, if I use this bitter butter, it will make my batter bitter. So Betty Botter bought a bit of better butter and it made her batter better. -
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Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
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Gamaliel
S4, Good to hear you again. The names are familiar, but sound like ones that came up after my stint (76-80).