Posts by Duran

171

Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

by slimboyfat in

in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

Duran

@aqwsed

In your view of your 'Jehovah spirit/Jesus man God' being one in the same, having always existed not being created, did that God create all his said 'spirit sons'?

How would you refer/describe the first created 'spirit son' in relation to your Jehovah/Jesus God?

Did your Jehovah/Jesus God create Adam?

How would you refer/describe Adam in relation to your Jehovah/Jesus God?

__________________________

[ 17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”]

Who is Jesus' God and Father referring to there?

Who are Jesus' brothers there?

Who is God and Father of the said brothers referring to there?

____________________

[ 29 because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained to be patterned after the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.]

Who is he/his referring to there?

Who is Son referring to there and how is he 'firstborn among many brothers'?

Who are the 'many brothers' referring to there?

_____________________

[ 18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison,]

Who are the 'spirits in prison' referring to there?

60

Biden calls Trump supporters garbage

by moomanchu in

a comedian in a comedy sketch at a trunp rally joked that the island of puerto rico is a floating island of garbage.. what to do???

potus pappy joe to the rescue!!

he sounds the alarm, comes out swinging and calls trump supporters, actual people, garbage.. .

Duran

Going back and commenting on every single Social Media post predicting Kamala’s sweeping victory is so satisfying

It would be so great to see/hear someone that was able to follow up on this woman and hear what see has to say now...

I Meme Therefore I Am 🇺🇸 on X: "Good morning, this “political analyst’s” video is still up. Enjoy it! 😂😭😂 https://t.co/U1feADLdcD" / X

7

GB's latest prophecy is already wrong!!!

by nowwhat? in

at the annual meeting they said god will put it into the nations hearts to give their power to the united nations.

now that trump and the republicans have won, the united states will never give up their sovereignty to the u.n. !

trump has total disdain for the un, who and wef!

Duran

Trump won the election; but he is not in office yet.

Let's see what those who are running things behind Biden/Harris will do between now and Jan 20th.

If WW3 breaks out before then, Trump will never take office.

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

Duran

Newborn babies are not "men".... probably go straight to heaven if they die.

'Men' there is not speaking about adults or males, it is speaking about mankind/the human race which includes males and females of all ages.

Are you actually claiming that a newborn baby is born sinless?

LOL! You have a problem here for your beliefs based on your answer to the above.

You want to say that babies are born sinless because they are too young to do anything to get saved, so a sinless baby in your reasoning could go to heaven.

If the baby was born with sin and later died and could not have done anything to get save in your view, where does that baby go? Does God take the sinful unsaved baby?

If you say that a baby is born without sin, then at what point/age does a baby/child become sinful?

And if you claim babies/young children are sinless from birth until some point, then why/how do babies/children even get sick or die during the point that you think they are sinless?

Regarding Lazarus: I coulnd't make out your point. Are you wondering why he died again after being resurrected? If so, it is because he was a sinner.

He was a sinner because it was passed on upon him through Adam, right?

But he died paying the wage for sin, so when he was resurrected, he should not have been under the adamic sin penalty of death.

[14 Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died,]

[43 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice: “Lazʹa·rus, come out!” 44 The man who had been dead came out with his feet and hands bound with wrappings, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them: “Free him and let him go.”]

[23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.]

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

Duran

When he fell, he took it all with him

You say that like it was Adam that subjected all to futility, but it was God who decided that ALL people who didn't even exist yet, they would all have to suffer sin, being born right into it from the beginning of their life, even though they personally did not do anything to deserve such penalty.

It was God that subjected it because of what Adam did:

[20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope.]

[17 And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”]

If that only applied to Adam and Eve for their actions, then that would be a case where you could say, Well the one that created them set the rules and they disobeyed therefore received the outcome.

But instead, you have this:

[12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men ~~because they had all sinned~~]

That ~~last part~~ is not true that ALL men had sinned. How does a newborn baby sin (disobey God)? They don't! All men sinned is based on God's decision that it would automaticity spread to all Adam's offspring at birth, or I suppose even at conception.

How about my question on Lazarus?

121

PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

by Terry in

jw
friends

my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

Duran

There is no way at this point to talk about how many votes Trump got or Harris. Or about the whole where are the 19/20 million voters from 2020. Just because the race and states have been declared for a Trump win does not mean that the votes are all in. They are still counting votes today. When done it won't change the outcome of the winner, but it will account for the so-called missing millions and show just how many Trump and Harris actually got.

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

Duran

Since the Fall, I don't think we really have the extent of Free-Will God created man with.

God directly created Adam and Eve. They directly disobeyed him using their 'freewill' to do so.

Before they disobeyed, they were said to be perfect without sin.

If they disobeyed out of their freewill and that induced sin to be in them, so be it.

I can accept that they started off with perfection and told keep choosing to listen to me and remain perfect/sin free (not dying/not suffering, etc) but when you choose to disobey me you will lose your perfection and become sinful (begin dying/suffering, etc).

But here comes the ridiculous unfair part.

It was decided (by God) that Adam and Eve's children and every person born thereafter would automatically be born sinful/not perfect subjected to suffering and death, while claiming that they still will have freewill.

This means that every human other than Adam and Eve are subjected to the penalty that is giving to someone who willfully disobeys, they receive that penalty without ever doing themselves the very act of disobeying. They are born having that penalty before they ever have a chance out of their own freewill to obey or not.

So now if one is so-called disobeying today and if one is so-called obeying, both are dying/suffering being born with sin at no fault, no choice, no doing of their own.

The one so-called obeying can say to the one so-called disobeying; 'Hey you should obey' and the one so-called disobeying can say, 'Why, what is going to happen if I don't, am I going to receive the penalty of sin (suffering/death), the penalty I already received at no fault of my own when I was born.'

______________

Here is a question for you SB, if the wage that sin pays is death and being that Lazarus died, was he perfect without sin when he was resurrected? Why did he die again?

66

Trump wins

by gavindlt in

i am non political and have never voted but nonetheless i have been keenly watching to see how the trump presidential race unfolds.

i believe that his involvement in propelling or influencing a leaning toward bible prophecy will unfold.

how, i can’t say but something tells me that this anomaly and outlier being trump is highly signifiant!

Duran

Kamala still hasn't conceded,

She has, a couple hours ago it was said she called Trump. She is now about to talk live starting at 4pm.

WATCH LIVE: Kamala Harris speaks for first time since losing presidential race

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Duran

@ aqwsed

I suppose I have no one to blame but myself for attempting to reason with a total foolish person unable to discuss. You keep with your copy and paste and don't even understand what you post. You keep just repeating the same.

You fail to understand that the question asked 'to which one of the angels' did God say that to, is just that, what angel/spirit being son did he say that to. That's because that is all there is to choose from. There is Jehovah God, who was not created, and then there are all his angels/spirit being sons that he created.

The one he (Jehovah) made/created first is considered his firstborn and that is what accounts for the sonship that does not apply to the other angel sons. It is that angel son that came to earth (for the first time) and when raised back to heaven sat at the right hand of God at that time. That is his exalted position. He is equal with God now from that point in the sense that he now has life within himself and everything/everyone (except Jehovah) is subjected to him. This was Jehovah's doing/reward to him in the exalted superior position.

Even the chosen ones will be rewarded with life within themselves as well as getting to rule with Jesus for the 1,000 years. Jesus rules from the time he sat on the throne with Jehovah (at his right hand) until sometime after the 1,000 years when the last enemy death comes to an end and then hands the kingdom back to Jehovah.

Jesus comes to earth a second time after the GT and guess what Michael is said to do...

[12 “At that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people.]

[24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.]

[ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

___________________

Will you answer the post where I said: 'Putting Jesus aside here"

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Duran

@ aqwsed

While I wait for your response to the above, I will add this:

Jesus’ authority over angels is absolute (Matthew 28:18), whereas Michael’s role as “one of the chief princes” (Daniel 10:13) implies a level of hierarchy under divine authority rather than supreme authority. Michael is a commander within the angelic ranks, whereas Jesus is “Lord of lords” and “King of kings” (Revelation 19:16), over all creation.

You are speaking of Michael at a point in time as referenced in Daniel. This was before Jesus came to earth as a man. Michael was/is under authority of God, YES and as archangel with God's authority, Michael had authority over the angels. (Technically over his brothers, they and him being sons of God.)

Jesus does indeed have authority over all creation, but he does not over Jehovah God. It was after Jesus died and was raised that he was exalted to a superior position. He was given that power and authority over all by Jehovah.

Jesus, a son of God has authority over the angels/sons of God (Jesus' brothers) which he always had in his position as archangel, but now since coming and dying and being raised, now in his exalted superior position, the angels/his brothers are subject to him based on his own authority, not Jehovah's as he has been given authority over all in heaven and earth, except over Jehovah God.

[ 8 More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position]

[ 18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.]

[22 He is at God’s right hand, for he went to heaven, and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.]

[27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.]