Posts by Duran

171

Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

by slimboyfat in

in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

Duran

In your response, the bolded sections seem intended to reinforce an argument that Jesus is not divine or equal with God by emphasizing distinctions between the Father and the Son. The comments appear to suggest that Jesus’ role as the “last Adam” and “Son of God” should not imply divinity but rather align him with humanity. Furthermore, references to Philippians 2:6 in the New World Translation attempt to argue that Jesus does not claim equality with God.

You just keep showing yourself to be a rambling fool. I did not make any commentary there about divinity or equality in regard to Jehovah and Jesus. My focus is the bolden areas, not necessary the context. So, the rambling you keep doing is pointless and has nothing to do with what is shown in the bolden.

To start it says that God is a spirit. (That is God's form, a spirit being.) This is the foundation, 'God' is a spirit being.

God created other spirit beings. Those spirit beings are said to be God's spirit sons. God and his spirit sons are heavenly.

God also created a man (Adam) on earth from dust. Adam is said to be God's human son. (God created Eve as well, a woman who is God's human daughter.)

All persons that come from Adam and Eve are humans on earth. All in heaven including God himself are spirit beings.1 Corinthians 15:45,48

God's firstborn/begotten son Jesus, a spirit being in heaven came to earth and took on a human form by being born from Mary. (That coming to earth then as a human is considered his first time.)

After 40 days from his resurrection as a human he returned to heaven as a spirit being again.

After the future GT, Jesus is said to come to earth again which will be his second coming.

1 Peter 3:18,19;Acts 1:3,9-11;Hebrews 1:6;9:28;Mark 13:24-26

Everything I said here is accurate and should be in agreement with trinity believes and those who do not believe the trinity.

There is no reason here to say, 'yeah it is accurate, but Jesus is not God' or 'yeah it is accurate, but Jesus is God'.

All that matters at this point is that events happen that bring about the GT, so that Jesus can come after. I don't care if Jesus God shows up or Jesus, son of God shows up. If the Bible's version of the GT never happens then like the atheist believe now, the Bible is just a bunch of BS.

171

Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

by slimboyfat in

in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

Duran

~~While~~ God created all spiritual beings ~~through Jesus (Colossians 1:16), orthodox Christianity does not view Jesus as a “first created spirit son.”~~

~~Thus, while~~ Adam is the "first human son" in a created sense, ~~Jesus is uniquely the eternal Son of God who becomes incarnate to redeem humanity, not just another created being.~~

Jesus as the "last Adam" ~~is essential because, unlike the first Adam, Jesus brings life and reconciliation through His death and resurrection.~~

[38 son of Eʹnosh, son of Seth, son of Adam, son of God.]

[1 The beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ, the son of God]

[ 47 The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust; and like the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly.]

[24 God is a Spirit,]

[6 Now the day came when the sons of the true God entered to take their station before Jehovah]

[ 14 Are they not all spirits for holy service,]

[ 5 Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human.]

[ 18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison,]

[ 6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth]

[28 so also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin, and he will be seen by those earnestly looking for him for their salvation.]

TBC...

171

Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

by slimboyfat in

in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

Duran

@aqwsed

So, your version of 'God' created all 'spirit beings', and they are viewed as being his 'spirit sons', and the first one of those 'spirit sons' that God created, would be God's 'first spirit son'.

Your version of 'God' created Adam and Adam is God's 'first human son'.

Do you agree with the above?

_____________

In Christian theology, Jesus is also known as the "second Adam" due to His role in redemption. Where the first Adam brought sin and separation from God, Jesus (the "second Adam") brings reconciliation and life.

[45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.]

[18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.]

[ 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.]

Do you agree with those Scriptures?

171

Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

by slimboyfat in

in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

Duran

@aqwsed

You are rambling on and on and it does nothing to answer what I asked.

I have asked very pointed questions to which you seem to not be able to answer directly.

I started out given you that about what you believe in Jesus being God so there is no need for you to reply with all the rambling that you do in that regard.

The Bible does not identify a "first-created spirit son" in relation to Jehovah/Jesus

I did not ask my question based on rather it says it or not. I asked it based on your understanding:

How would you refer/describe the first created 'spirit son' in relation to your Jehovah/Jesus God?

How would you refer/describe Adam in relation to your Jehovah/Jesus God?

51

The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

by Longlivetherenegades in

those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

1. father .

2. jesus .

Duran

The diagram is scriptural and illustrates how Jesus is both Fully Man and Fully God.

SB, do you have a spirit?

Do you have emotions, will and a mind?

Do you have a body?

Are you a god?

Are you Jehovah God?

171

Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

by slimboyfat in

in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

Duran

@aqwsed

In your view of your 'Jehovah spirit/Jesus man God' being one in the same, having always existed not being created, did that God create all his said 'spirit sons'?

How would you refer/describe the first created 'spirit son' in relation to your Jehovah/Jesus God?

Did your Jehovah/Jesus God create Adam?

How would you refer/describe Adam in relation to your Jehovah/Jesus God?

__________________________

[ 17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”]

Who is Jesus' God and Father referring to there?

Who are Jesus' brothers there?

Who is God and Father of the said brothers referring to there?

____________________

[ 29 because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained to be patterned after the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.]

Who is he/his referring to there?

Who is Son referring to there and how is he 'firstborn among many brothers'?

Who are the 'many brothers' referring to there?

_____________________

[ 18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison,]

Who are the 'spirits in prison' referring to there?

60

Biden calls Trump supporters garbage

by moomanchu in

a comedian in a comedy sketch at a trunp rally joked that the island of puerto rico is a floating island of garbage.. what to do???

potus pappy joe to the rescue!!

he sounds the alarm, comes out swinging and calls trump supporters, actual people, garbage.. .

Duran

Going back and commenting on every single Social Media post predicting Kamala’s sweeping victory is so satisfying

It would be so great to see/hear someone that was able to follow up on this woman and hear what see has to say now...

I Meme Therefore I Am 🇺🇸 on X: "Good morning, this “political analyst’s” video is still up. Enjoy it! 😂😭😂 https://t.co/U1feADLdcD" / X

7

GB's latest prophecy is already wrong!!!

by nowwhat? in

at the annual meeting they said god will put it into the nations hearts to give their power to the united nations.

now that trump and the republicans have won, the united states will never give up their sovereignty to the u.n. !

trump has total disdain for the un, who and wef!

Duran

Trump won the election; but he is not in office yet.

Let's see what those who are running things behind Biden/Harris will do between now and Jan 20th.

If WW3 breaks out before then, Trump will never take office.

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

Duran

Newborn babies are not "men".... probably go straight to heaven if they die.

'Men' there is not speaking about adults or males, it is speaking about mankind/the human race which includes males and females of all ages.

Are you actually claiming that a newborn baby is born sinless?

LOL! You have a problem here for your beliefs based on your answer to the above.

You want to say that babies are born sinless because they are too young to do anything to get saved, so a sinless baby in your reasoning could go to heaven.

If the baby was born with sin and later died and could not have done anything to get save in your view, where does that baby go? Does God take the sinful unsaved baby?

If you say that a baby is born without sin, then at what point/age does a baby/child become sinful?

And if you claim babies/young children are sinless from birth until some point, then why/how do babies/children even get sick or die during the point that you think they are sinless?

Regarding Lazarus: I coulnd't make out your point. Are you wondering why he died again after being resurrected? If so, it is because he was a sinner.

He was a sinner because it was passed on upon him through Adam, right?

But he died paying the wage for sin, so when he was resurrected, he should not have been under the adamic sin penalty of death.

[14 Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died,]

[43 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice: “Lazʹa·rus, come out!” 44 The man who had been dead came out with his feet and hands bound with wrappings, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them: “Free him and let him go.”]

[23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.]

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

Duran

When he fell, he took it all with him

You say that like it was Adam that subjected all to futility, but it was God who decided that ALL people who didn't even exist yet, they would all have to suffer sin, being born right into it from the beginning of their life, even though they personally did not do anything to deserve such penalty.

It was God that subjected it because of what Adam did:

[20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope.]

[17 And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”]

If that only applied to Adam and Eve for their actions, then that would be a case where you could say, Well the one that created them set the rules and they disobeyed therefore received the outcome.

But instead, you have this:

[12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men ~~because they had all sinned~~]

That ~~last part~~ is not true that ALL men had sinned. How does a newborn baby sin (disobey God)? They don't! All men sinned is based on God's decision that it would automaticity spread to all Adam's offspring at birth, or I suppose even at conception.

How about my question on Lazarus?