Posts by Duran

20

Defend Your Borders or Listen to the Watchtower?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/dnoww-4jfao?si=ehzmc5-gxqukgn7q.

with ww3 on the horizon the watchtower is bringing out their best hits on the issue of neutrality and the latest instalment on jw.org with stephen lett has the theme " why ancient israelites were allowed to go to war but as a christian you can't " or to paraphrase for a 2024 audience " why the modern state of israel is allowed all the nuclear weapons to defend their borders but you as a western european or north american you aren't supposed to compliant against open border policies and uncontrolled illegal migration" isn't that the exact same rhetoric or is it my imagination?

so one of stephen lett's go to arguments is that christians do not take up arms because we don't live in ancient times where israelites had a mandate to occupy the holy land where as we gentile christians we don't.

Duran

[5 Then I, Daniel, looked and saw two others standing there, one on this bank of the stream and one on the other bank of the stream. 6 Then one said to the man clothed in linen, who was up above the waters of the stream: “How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?” Then one said to the man clothed in linen, who was up above the waters of the stream: “How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?” 7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and swore by the One who is alive forever: “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things will come to their finish.”]

The end of dashing to pieces comes to an end after the 42 months. It is during those 42 months that the chosen ones as well as the GC are experiencing the tribulation upon them for refusing to support the 8th king.

Jesus does away with the 8th king after the 42 months when he comes.

In Daniel, Jesus is also said to be the stone that crushes the image. The image as a whole represents the 8th king, just as the beast as a whole is the 8th king.

It is clear that when the 8th king comes to power and the time for the MOTB is here, there can on be two camps of people. One's who make up the 8th king and support him/take the mark, etc. And one's who refuse to take the mark/refuse to support him.

This is the basis of judgment that God uses to see who really belongs to him or who belong to Satan. Those that take the mark are judged to belong to Satan and will be killed off when Jesus comes. Those that refuse it are judged to belong to God and they will be part of the GC and some will rule with Jesus.

Because Jesus also does away with the MOL when he (Jesus) comes after the 42 months, this means that the MOL and 8th king come to their end at the same point and by the same means.

It makes no sense and could serve no purpose to claim that the MOL is a separate entity during the time the 8th king is ruling. And that this MOL is causing an apostasy that God allows to take place in order for people to be judged.

No one refusing the 8th king and living under his captivity and the tribulation that that will bring upon themselves for do so, none of these will be engaging in any separate apostasy with the MOL.

Only those that take the mark and support the 8th king would be ones that would be ones that would engage in any apostasy from the MOL. But what point and purpose would that serve, those that take the mark will be judged to be killed and so will those that engage in the apostasy from the MOL will perish/not be saved/will be killed.

The only thing that can make sense in this regard is if the apostasy having to do with the MOL is the supporting the 8th king, which is thereby rejecting God.

20

Defend Your Borders or Listen to the Watchtower?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/dnoww-4jfao?si=ehzmc5-gxqukgn7q.

with ww3 on the horizon the watchtower is bringing out their best hits on the issue of neutrality and the latest instalment on jw.org with stephen lett has the theme " why ancient israelites were allowed to go to war but as a christian you can't " or to paraphrase for a 2024 audience " why the modern state of israel is allowed all the nuclear weapons to defend their borders but you as a western european or north american you aren't supposed to compliant against open border policies and uncontrolled illegal migration" isn't that the exact same rhetoric or is it my imagination?

so one of stephen lett's go to arguments is that christians do not take up arms because we don't live in ancient times where israelites had a mandate to occupy the holy land where as we gentile christians we don't.

Duran

Next, I will show how the KOTN is the same...

[15 “Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment),]

[ 31 And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature. “And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.32 “And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively.] [36 “The king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself above every god; and against the God of gods he will speak astonishing things. And he will prove successful until the denunciation comes to a finish; because what is determined must take place. 37 He will show no regard for the God of his fathers; nor will he show regard for the desire of women or for any other god, but he will magnify himself over everyone.]

[3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.]

Connected with the MOL is the apostasy. Also connected with the DT/KOTN is the apostasy. The KOTN is said to be in God's holy place and the MOL is said to be in God's temple both exalting themselves above everyone. (The holy place and temple are the same place.)

Clearly there can't be two different entities both in the same place at the same time exalting themselves even against each other and both leading an apostasy against God.

It is said that those knowing their God will prevail and not be led into apostasy. The apostasy is the taking the MOTB/supporting the 8th king/KOTN/MOL.

[the giving the power to the beast/8th king] = [putting the DT/KOTN in the holy place] = [MOL in the temple]

The holy place/temple is not a physical place nor is it a specific group of people claiming to be God's people.

The holy place/temple (God's house) is made up of all peoples (wheat) of the world who claim belief in him regardless of their inaccurate understandings/beliefs currently.

The people who are judged to perish/not be saved in connection with the MOL/apostasy are the same ones who are led into the apostasy connected with the KOTN, which is the same people who take the MOTB/support the 8th king. In their doing so they are rejecting God and his kingdom which is the only true apostasy there is. These people (weeds) are not God's people and they will perish/not be saved/will be cut of when Jesus comes.

The people who love truth/reject the MOL/apostasy are those that prevail and act effectivity against the KOTN/apostasy which is the same as those that refuse the MOTB/refuse the 8th king. These people are God's true peoples and will make up the GC and some from among them will rule with Jesus.

When God's people are living under the 8th king/MOL/KOTN rule they will be undergoing GT for not going along with him. It is in that sense that God's temple/holy place/house is being trampled upon. This is how judgment stars with God's house/his people. Then afterward judgment will come upon all those that made up the 8th king and supported him. This will occur when Jesus comes.

405

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Duran

context - the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning

[12 Then Jesus spoke again to them, saying: “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.” 13 So the Pharisees said to him: “You bear witness about yourself; your witness is not true.” 14 In answer Jesus said to them: “Even if I do bear witness about myself, my witness is true, because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I came from and where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I do not judge any man at all. 16 And yet even if I do judge, my judgment is truthful, because I am not alone, but the Father who sent me is with me. 17 Also, in your own Law it is written: ‘The witness of two men is true.’ 18 I am one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.”]

20

Defend Your Borders or Listen to the Watchtower?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/dnoww-4jfao?si=ehzmc5-gxqukgn7q.

with ww3 on the horizon the watchtower is bringing out their best hits on the issue of neutrality and the latest instalment on jw.org with stephen lett has the theme " why ancient israelites were allowed to go to war but as a christian you can't " or to paraphrase for a 2024 audience " why the modern state of israel is allowed all the nuclear weapons to defend their borders but you as a western european or north american you aren't supposed to compliant against open border policies and uncontrolled illegal migration" isn't that the exact same rhetoric or is it my imagination?

so one of stephen lett's go to arguments is that christians do not take up arms because we don't live in ancient times where israelites had a mandate to occupy the holy land where as we gentile christians we don't.

Duran

The 8th king is the same as the MOL and when the restraint holding back the MOL comes off at God's time for it, then the MOL/8th king will come to power to rule the NWO and under that rule there will be those proving to be God's true people by refusing the 8th king and there will be those that prove they do not belong to God by their supporting the 8th king.

[ 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his coming.]

Jesus will do away/kill the MOL when he (Jesus) comes. This means that the MOL is on hand, acting in his foretold role, at the time prior to Jesus coming.

It is clearly stated the before Jesus can come that the MOL has to come first.

In regard to the MOL coming and the foretold purpose, it says:

[4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.]

Notice that connected to the MOL is a judgment from God. This means that those that believe all the powerful works, lying signs, etc. are misled to believe and support the MOL's claim. These people will perish/not be saved.

____________________

[6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. 7 He was saying in a loud voice: “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of judgment by him has arrived, so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and the springs of water.” 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of His wrath, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image and whoever receives the mark of its name. 12 Here is where it calls for endurance on the part of the holy ones, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus.”] [19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur. 21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.]

There it shows that the beast is thrown into the fiery lake/done away with when Jesus comes. That means that that beast had to be on hand doing his foretold role prior to Jesus coming.

Also connected to that beast is a judgment from God and all those that believed the signs etc., so were misled to support/take the MOTB, these will also be killed/perish/not be saved when Jesus comes.

How likely is it that there are two separate entities on hand at the time Jesus comes, that he is said to do away with both at that time of his coming, that are both a cause for judgment by God, that results in the judgment of death for those that believe/mislead to support either entity?

Surely it is not reasonable that they are two separate entities, but instead they are one in the same.

Next, I will show how the KOTN is the same...

405

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Duran

LOL! I am not nor was ever a JW.

And only a true idiot would reply with an explanation to what was a facetious comment.

Why don't you two get a room...

405

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Duran

@Rattigan350

Hey, I thought Satan is God...so, I guess Jesus is Satan...

New International Version
The God of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

New International Version
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

13

Unchangeable wisdom from the "slave" of yesteryear! 😀

by BoogerMan in

brethern, and cistern, today's lesson from the golden calf is one of profound importance - never to be forgotten!.

w56 6/15 p. 360 - "we usually believe what we want to believe, and one thing we like to believe is that we do our own thinking.

they plant the thought and nourish it, but do it so subtly that we think it is our own.

Duran

[8-22-78 Awake – EDUCATION teaches you how to think. Propagandists tell you what to think. True educators present all sides of an issue and encourage discussion. Propagandists hammer hard on their view and discourage discussion. Many times their true motives are hidden. They sift the facts, tell the favorable ones and conceal the others. They distort and twist facts, specialize in lies and half-truths. Your emotions, not your logical thinking abilities, are their target. Many fall easy prey because it takes no effort to feel, whereas thinking is hard labor. And the propagandist sees to it that his message is made to seem wise, the right and moral one, and gives you a sense of importance and belonging if you follow it. You are one of the smart ones, you are not alone, you are comfortable and secure—so they say. Proverbs 14:15 states: “A simple man believes every word he hears; a clever man understands the need for proof.” (The New English Bible) Many today are like sponges; they soak up whatever they are submerged in. It is the easy way. Exercise for the muscles is hard work; exercising the mind is even harder. It is so much easier to soak up whatever is around—and today, for the most part, that is television, the printed page, radio and movies. There are, however, some good books, movies and television programs. They require more mental effort to read or to watch. So each individual must choose what he will feed his mind. It is said that we are what we eat, and this can apply to food for both the body and the mind. Whatever you read or watch or listen to, test whether it is propaganda or whether it is the truth. “The god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers,” that they might not know the vital truths of our time. What about you? Will you let others think for you, or will you do your own thinking? Do your own, and “thinking ability itself will keep guard over you.” ]

20

Defend Your Borders or Listen to the Watchtower?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/dnoww-4jfao?si=ehzmc5-gxqukgn7q.

with ww3 on the horizon the watchtower is bringing out their best hits on the issue of neutrality and the latest instalment on jw.org with stephen lett has the theme " why ancient israelites were allowed to go to war but as a christian you can't " or to paraphrase for a 2024 audience " why the modern state of israel is allowed all the nuclear weapons to defend their borders but you as a western european or north american you aren't supposed to compliant against open border policies and uncontrolled illegal migration" isn't that the exact same rhetoric or is it my imagination?

so one of stephen lett's go to arguments is that christians do not take up arms because we don't live in ancient times where israelites had a mandate to occupy the holy land where as we gentile christians we don't.

Duran

I see what you are saying there but that is not the same as what it is now.

When you read 'nations' there it is clearer if you think 'peoples'.

1484. ethnos - nation, gentile, people

1471. goy - nation, gentile, people

This you have right:

It suggests a diversity of peoples and governance under Christ's rule.

The key being the second part of that, 'governance under Christ's rule.'

Today we have different 'nations' (countries) with their own borders, laws, governance, languages.

Under God's kingdom and governance under Jesus' rule, there will be 'peoples' of all the current 'nations', so a 'diversity of peoples' you seek will be there, but the culture, history, and languages are done away with and start anew under however/whatever God has instore for his 'peoples' living under kingdom rule.

[21And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away,5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.”]

[11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.]

[17 For look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be called to mind, Nor will they come up into the heart.]

[ 9 For then I will change the language of the peoples to a pure language, So that all of them may call on the name of Jehovah, To serve him shoulder to shoulder.’]

20

Defend Your Borders or Listen to the Watchtower?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/dnoww-4jfao?si=ehzmc5-gxqukgn7q.

with ww3 on the horizon the watchtower is bringing out their best hits on the issue of neutrality and the latest instalment on jw.org with stephen lett has the theme " why ancient israelites were allowed to go to war but as a christian you can't " or to paraphrase for a 2024 audience " why the modern state of israel is allowed all the nuclear weapons to defend their borders but you as a western european or north american you aren't supposed to compliant against open border policies and uncontrolled illegal migration" isn't that the exact same rhetoric or is it my imagination?

so one of stephen lett's go to arguments is that christians do not take up arms because we don't live in ancient times where israelites had a mandate to occupy the holy land where as we gentile christians we don't.

Duran

the Antichrist is God's punishment for mankind

Nope, not for all, just upon those that claim to be God's people. Those that do not believe or want to serve God will do just fine under the Antichrist/8th king rule. Their punishment will come from Jesus after the 8th king's rule.

nevertheless his purpose post tower of Babel has been a world of borders and distinct national identities.

Nope, that was only to be until during the 7th king rule which is where we are at now. Now the purpose is to be an NWO/8th king rule.

Read ALL the cited Scriptures.

I prefer a world where people are allowed to be part of their local national entity with distinct language ,history and culture,

You can prefer all you want but that was never God's purpose, and he will return it back to his purpose.

Genesis 11:1-9;Zephaniah 3:8,9

20

Defend Your Borders or Listen to the Watchtower?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/dnoww-4jfao?si=ehzmc5-gxqukgn7q.

with ww3 on the horizon the watchtower is bringing out their best hits on the issue of neutrality and the latest instalment on jw.org with stephen lett has the theme " why ancient israelites were allowed to go to war but as a christian you can't " or to paraphrase for a 2024 audience " why the modern state of israel is allowed all the nuclear weapons to defend their borders but you as a western european or north american you aren't supposed to compliant against open border policies and uncontrolled illegal migration" isn't that the exact same rhetoric or is it my imagination?

so one of stephen lett's go to arguments is that christians do not take up arms because we don't live in ancient times where israelites had a mandate to occupy the holy land where as we gentile christians we don't.

Duran

But here’s the irony: The Watchtower historically took a strong stance against globalism,not anymore, warning about a “new world order” that seeks to erase borders and create one unified system, much like the Tower of Babel. Genesis 11:4 records the people’s rebellious intent: “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.” God’s response? “So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth.” (Genesis 11:8). Clearly, God values diversity and distinct nations, not one centralized global society.

You are half right. It was God's intention to hold back/restrain the NWO as far back as the ToB and has been the case up until now during the 7th king. But it has also been God's intention/purpose for the NWO to come about at the right time (God's time for it.). It comes upon in the form as the 8th king. This 8th king is God's means to judge all who claim to believe in him and want to serve him and live under his kingdom, not Satan's.

The 8th king is the same as the MOL and when the restraint holding back the MOL comes off at God's time for it, then the MOL/8th king will come to power to rule the NWO and under that rule there will be those proving to be God's true people by refusing the 8th king and there will be those that prove they do not belong to God by their supporting the 8th king.

The 8th king serves as the judgment that comes first on the house of God (his people) and then when Jesus comes after the 8th king (Armageddon) that serves as the judgment that comes upon those who were not obedient to the good news of God.

[ 17 For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the outcome be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God?]

[ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

2 Thessalonians 2:4-12;Rev 17:13,17;13:5,7,10;14:6,7,9-12;20:4;7:9,13,14;19:20,21

_______________

Ray, small correction to your post, WW3 has in fact started already, when the russia/ukrain thing kicked off. Its only now reaching full boil

@Just a guy, I agree, so far they were fighting a proxy war, but rhe masks gave come off for good now

WW3 has to happen to bring about the 8th king/MOL, it is the pretext for the nations to give their power and authority over.

[United Nations: Guterres warns ‘we are on the edge of an abyss’
The UN’s chief painted a grim picture of a divided and polarized world and urged solidarity among nations.…The world has never been more threatened or more divided, United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres told nations of the world on Tuesday as he kicked off the 76th General Assembly session, urging all 193 member states to “wake up” and realize that solidarity is the only way out of disaster.]

[23 “And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, a fierce-looking king who understands ambiguous sayings will stand up. 24 His power will become great, but not through his own power. He will bring ruin in an extraordinary way, and he will be successful and act effectively. He will bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones.] cf. Revelation 17:13,17